Darkoz
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^This, this and this
Just lately, well for some time I think most just dont really grasp the the difference between demonstrating strength versus building strength and the methods used and the bickering between the PL fans, BB fans and the lifting hobbyist, which most here are.
So I try to understand it.
When an person wants to demonstrate strength, it’s important to create conditions that will best allow that demonstration.
The person should take every “shortcut” possible, working to minimize the distance the weight is moved other methods involve improving leverages in the involved bodyparts, altering body position and utilizing equipment that makes the lift as “easy” as possible, wearing apparel that provides maximum support to the involved parts, and of course, being as well rested and mentally prepared as possible.
Now the confusing misunderstood component.
In order to build strength, one must make each and every repetition as difficult to do as is possible.
No supportive gear, safest body position should be pursued, the lifter should not attempt to maximize the possibilities of making each rep.
In other words once an exercise is chosen to strengthen the targeted muscle groups, the harder each rep of each set is the “better,” the harder, and the more productive the workout will be.
It is clear that the more time taken between sets, the more rested and mentally prepared or “psyched” the lifter can be.
Again, this is great if one’s primary goal is to demonstrate the strength that’s already present and which has resulted from and should be from *previous well constructed workouts*.
If the goal is to continue to build strength, each all-out set which has preceded the one being done, will have taken something away from the trainee’s energy and strength levels.
In a very tough workout, the psychological edge will also be worn thin, with the athlete fighting to concentrate on each rep of each set.
This is in stark comparison to the lifter who stalks the gym between sets, tightening his wraps, pulling up the straps on the supportive suit, sniffing ammonia or amyl nitrate, getting slapped by his training partner after eight minutes of rest following the preceding set.
Obviously, it’s almost impossible to maintain a high level of intensity if one takes the time to fully recover between sets.
At one extreme, and this is what I do with myself once a week and others I help is, no rest is taken between sets, other than that necessary to go from one exercise to the next, and properly and safely position oneself for that particular movement.
For the uninitiated, this is a very difficult way to train, and it’s true that cardiorespiratory deficiency will reduce the ability to exert maximal muscular effort, at least at first.
However, in a very short period of time, the body adapts to the stimulus. Reducing the time of identical workouts increases the intensity of the workout.
For the young blokes that follow their Lifting heroes I just want to tell you that it's very important to spend time *exercising* programming a template that builds strength safely to enable you to lift for a very long time.
I have no serious injuries but I know many here much younger carrying and working through issues, if you have problems now, think about what you'll be like 10 years from now, 20 years from now.
You're advocating a style of training that certainly has its benefits Goosey, but I disagree with you on a few points. I tend to hoist the weight rather than control it, and take very long breaks between sets for some exercises. I also make the bench as 'easy' as possible using powerlifter style technique. Why?
- Benching like a powerlifter has been the easiest on my shoulders.
- Long breaks at around 5 minutes working 5 sets of 5 on my main lifts has yielded me the best strength gains.
- Training for maximum speed and 'explosiveness' with a fast eccentric again has yielded me very good strength gains.
I'm not incredibly strong but I've made good progress, from 70kg to 120kg bench in around 8 months. I vary it up, and often go for a slower tempo on lighter weights.
I don't think you should stick religiously to either controlled or explosive lifting if you don't want to plateau. Force is force. Training explosively on bench gives you a lot of strength at the bottom point to power through the movement.
Psychologically training fast isn't easy either. A moments hesitation or doubt at the bottom of a max effort lift will result in you failing to develop the momentum necessary to get through a sticking point.
One other thing... I opt for a slower speed on exercises where I feel they're higher injury risk - for me going for a 'dropped eccentric' on chins or military press is a very bad idea (good way to tear bicep or hurt shoulder).
Looking through your log Joe, you seem to be nursing a few injuries that are even preventing you from doing certain exercises, now I'm not having a go at what you're saying but maybe a re-evaluation of how you workout is in order, which is relevant to what Goosey is saying.
Just something to think it about.
Good posts Andy.
What do you mean by any type of ballistic or explosive training is dangerous. Sprints, Jumps, throws, o lifts?
Thanks for that men.
Bazza, o'lifts, popular with crossfit and football strength coaches.
Well yeah. For the record unless being taught by someone who actually knows what they are doing I think the o lifts are a waste.
What about sprints, jumps ect.
In relation to building muscle?
Let me ask you, how would you train Dustin Fletcher?
Would you train him the same way as Jobe Watson?
I'm interested in your answer.
I agree with Goobey's post 100%
Since I made most of my training paused squats, long paused benches and halting deadlifts my strength has really improved. I'm going to play with halting bench press next I think, where I lift the weight then pause at the sticking point before continuing the lift
A few days ago I was going to ask this question so I shall ask it now as it seems fit.
Lats when you bench. For the purpose of having a big bench, do you feel that it's more important to have STRONG lats or more important to work on the mind muscle connection with the lats?
Yeah If we are talking building muscle forget my questions. I was thinking from a sport training point of view.
In saying that power shrugs are a fast movement and i haven't found anything that builds the traps better than them so far.
They would train differently for sure.
For me training Dustin fletcher it would all be about maintaining without getting injured. Any decent injury it's career over, no matter how he trains now he is unlikely to get faster, stronger, fitter and even if he did its doubtful he would play any better because of it.
I agree with Goobey's post 100%
Since I made most of my training paused squats, long paused benches and halting deadlifts my strength has really improved. I'm going to play with halting bench press next I think, where I lift the weight then pause at the sticking point before continuing the lift
A few days ago I was going to ask this question so I shall ask it now as it seems fit.
Lats when you bench. For the purpose of having a big bench, do you feel that it's more important to have STRONG lats or more important to work on the mind muscle connection with the lats?
Have beast strong lats and know how to use them when you bench.
No worries
I assume or at least it appears to me that with the "power shrug" you use momentum to ensure full contraction of the muscles worked?
I like this idea as long as it's held there for a second and then lowered under control as a form of controlled negatives it would really fatigue the area well.
With the power clean your body is subject to much force created by lifting the bar then letting it rest on the chest, so if the weight is 100kg, then the force on the body would be equivalent to roughly 1000kg.
With proper weight training exercise and for the purpose of improving strength the movement/repitition should not have any force imposed on the joint.
The forces placed on the body when running can also be extremely damaging to the body over a long period of time, especially for a heavily built person, even then if a person changed their running style so that the force was evenly placed throughout the surface of the foot instead of directly on the heel then the force will drop incredibly.
so if the weight is 100kg, then the force on the body would be equivalent to roughly 1000kg.
This is what I was thinking. My lats are strong in relation to my pressing and I can feel them working quite well on the bench - I just wanted to know if I should continue to just get strong as fuck on rows and chins or whether I should be doing bodybuilding type training for the lats. So I wanted to get a powerlifters bias and a bodybuilders bias
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