Combo program advice needed

[Stewstews]

Hey all,

Am after advice on my program. Thought a new thread rather than in my diary is the best place to discuss. Would welcome input and thoughts!

Goals:
Strength
Size
Sport (basketball)
Rehab/prevention (posture, various muscle imbalances)

My training goals are across all of these, which makes a program hard to focus. No one item takes priority (though I am motivated by PB's/competing against myself).

Training days:
Monday PM - Basketball
Tuesday PM - Gym
Thursday PM - Gym
Saturday AM - Gym

I like Sunday to be a rest day with the game on Monday’s. I've considered moving to morning's or adding another day, but I'm not a morning person and if I'm home any less than I am now, probably going to be in trouble

Draft program:
I like to target strength through OHP, Bench, Squat and Deadlift.
I like to target body building through free weights, cables and machines.
I like to target sport through plyometric or HIIT work.
I like to target the rehab type items through specific strengthening, stretches and exercises.

How to pull this together into a weekly / fortnightly program?

Tuesday
Primaries – Bench/Deadlift.
Accessories – Combo size and rehab work. Quads, Glutes, Hamstrings & Calves.

Thursday
Primary – Plyo’s/HIIT, perhaps alternating between them each week.
Accessories – Combo size and rehab work. Biceps, Back, Traps, Forearms.

Saturday
Primary – Squat/OHP.
Accessories – Combo size and rehab work. Chest, Triceps, Delts.

Bit concerned on the Tuesday in particular, that I won’t have time/energy to do much after the primaries. By default it might just turn into a strength program.

My thought is I might need to do this in 4 week phases, e.g. primary focus on strength with rehab/stretching as accessories for 4 weeks, then primary focus on plyo’s/HIIT with size accessories for the next 4?

Welcome any thoughts, as not following some sort of routine has really held me back (for that reason I’m roughly doing Fadi’s program here for the moment to tie me over: http://ausbb.com/bodybuilding-training-discussions/9219-lose-fat-maintain-muscle.html)

 

[ozzy]

If I was in your situation this is what I would do. Tuesday do bench/deads. Thursday do press/squat. Do 3 sets of 5. Think of what you think you can handle then take 5-10kg off. Increase weight by 2.5 each week. Once you've built up a solid strength foundation start up a 531 program or something similar. After the big compounds do some focused assistance work, 3-5 exercises at most and something like 3 sets of 10-12.

Leave the Saturday for whatever other funky stuff you wanna do and some ab work would be good too.

 

[TrentZor]

The guidelines i use on my bball players.


Strength

Firstly - I dont allow my Basketball athletes to do any plyometrics if they have not set a foundation of strengh.

****
Power = strength (example squats) x speed (how fast u can do the movement)
****
As u can see its no use having training for power (plyo) when your strength is pretty shit.

My base goals i give the guys at the gym is

squatting 1.5xbodyweight for reps of 5
benching 1xbw for reps of 5
trap bar or normal deadlifts @1.5-1.7xbw for reps of 5

I wouldnt be doing any plyos till then. These goals if done properly will take 6-12 weeks at the most. Lots of basic beginner programs around here to do that.

Most of the guys who have completed the above play in the regional nsw under 21's team (most have a 3m + standing vertical jump at 6 foot.)

have the results as below

- Vertical jumps increase by over 10cm on average after 6 weeks
- Speed off the mark is noticeably increased.
- Ball Drives and Guards are enhanced.

if u eventually get to the point of doing plyo's do them before your workouts for 5-10 min or preferably on a day off.

So basically

Monday PM - Basketball
Tuesday PM - Full body beginners program
Thursday PM - Full body beginners program
Friday - Plyometrics
Saturday AM - Full body beginners program



bodyweight
The problem here is that once u get stronger ive found with my athletes is they slow down due to the weight gain. This is all well and fine in the off-season but it takes some time for your cardiovascular and V02 max to catch up to the new weight gained. Of course if your 6 foot and 75kg thats very underweight. So gradually increase your bodyweight slowly while increasing your cardio.

Size
This generally is a by product of your strength training. So it will come in time.

Rehab/imbalances
I have tony a guy in the gym whom only shoots with 1 foot. Everytime he lifts i could tell the right leg is taking all the strain.
I have him doing pistol squats and single legged exercises as part of his normal squats.
Keep up mobility/foam rolls and stretches as part of your injury prevention.


Hiit/skills and drills
If your play coach isnt already doing HIIT related drills in your training then i would incorporate it into your training after each strength session.
example suicides/cone drills

P.s
In regards to bodybuilding. Im not sure of it fits into functional training.


If ive posted irrelevant about your basketball question on training.
Disregard above wall-o-text.

 

[jzpowahz]

great post Trent.

Stewstews: when do you practice basketball? Getting strong and fast is all good but if you want to be good at basketball then I think you should practice that a bit more in your schedule.

 

[myst]

This is great, passing onto a colleague of mine who plays basketball and has just started at the gym with me.

 

[Stewstews]

If I was in your situation this is what I would do. Tuesday do bench/deads. Thursday do press/squat. Do 3 sets of 5. Think of what you think you can handle then take 5-10kg off. Increase weight by 2.5 each week. Once you've built up a solid strength foundation start up a 531 program or something similar. After the big compounds do some focused assistance work, 3-5 exercises at most and something like 3 sets of 10-12.

Leave the Saturday for whatever other funky stuff you wanna do and some ab work would be good too.

Thanks mate. The bench/deads and press/squat combos would work well on those days, give the legs a bit of a break on the Tuesday's.

 

[TrentZor]

great post Trent.

Stewstews: when do you practice basketball? Getting strong and fast is all good but if you want to be good at basketball then I think you should practice that a bit more in your schedule.

Yep highly agreed.
Most of the guys in the bball team practice 2-3 x a week mostly in scrimmages.

 

[Stewstews]

wall-o-text.

Hey thanks a HEAP for the detailed input! Just the kind of input and discussion I was hoping for, but not expecting Now for my wall-o-text.

I think holding off on Plyo's is fine. Re: practicing basketball, my current team is not high level, so none will train with me... Looking for a higher level team / registering a new team where I expect I will be able to get in a training session once a week. I can't see me doing more than that (for now), given level competing at / other time restraints.

My current status:
Bodyweight - on Keto temporarily as a mini lean up, was 75kg now 70kg, expect a minor weight rebound when come off.
Height 174cm - not tall!
Bench 75kg (pb 1rm at 85kg.)
Squat 85kg (not difficult, going slow on increase as had psoas pains at 100kg in past.)
Deadlift 85kg (have done 120kg but DL form is TERRIBLE, wouldn't even call it a DL... Trying to work on that before advancing.)

So say weight is 75kg, targets are Bench 75kg (check), Squat 112.5kg and DL 127.5kg - reckon I can hit them soon. Doing Spritcha's workshop to really look at form as believe that is why I'm not already lifting higher.

Bodyweight I went from 65/66kg to 75kg the last year and definitely slowed up a bit (prior to this I was always fastest on court). So thus feel the HIIT weekly is important to get that back.

Imbalances

So program could be ?
Monday PM Bball game
Tuesday PM Strength program (working imbalances where possible)
Thursday PM Strength program (working imbalances where possible)
Friday PM Plyometrics + rehab/preventative items
Saturday AM HIIT Drills, Bball training

Tuesday - Bench, Deads.
Time permitting (as accessories, and imbalance focus):
1 arm row
Incline DB fliers
High row (alternating arm)
DB pullover

Thursday - Press, Squat
Substitute OHP for DB press occasionally. Squat for Barbell forward lunge.
Time permitting (as accessories, and imbalance focus):
Single Leg Squat/Pistol
Walking Lunges, or DB Reverse Lunge to 1-Leg RDL
1-Arm DB Bulgarian Split Squats from Deficit
Standing Calf Raise
Shrug
Rear delt flier

Plyo's could be:
Alternating Bosu Ball Pushups
Box Jumps
Incline Pushup Depth Jump
Rebounder Ab Crunch Ball Throw
Rebounder Standing Ball Throw

Rehab/preventative items (focus on thoracic spine, ankle and psoas):
Lat Pulldown (and Variations)
DuraDisc Balance
Psoas Stretch
Myofascial Psoas Stretch
Combined Psoas & Quadriceps Stretch
Ab work

Bit worried the "extra's" will compromise the Tue / Thur strength work and/or not sure how much time I'll have after doing the strength work. And unsure if I will always be able to get a Friday session in.

Thoughts?

 

[TrentZor]

Workout
The workout looks good but slowly add the accessories in if u feel u can re-cuperate. I would say stop at 2-3 assistance then increase the loading for them. I dont know how your work life/family/eating habits etc is so that needs to be factored in.
Try and do alot of calf exercises ranging from heavy to light. The key ive found to jumping higher is through this muscle.

If your in-season generally i would have my guys do 2 days of strength training.

Example Currently the team training schedule for my guys is like so during in-season and workout 2 days a week.
Mon - Workout
Tue - BBall skills and scrimmages on court with thier coach.
Wed - Workout
Thus - Recovery rehab/injury prevention
Friday - Game Day
Saturday - Recovery rehab/injury prevention
Sunday - Day off


Plyos
Those look good. There are a few good plyo websites for basketball which i grabbed off them and incorporated. Most players want to jump higher at the start.

Rehab/Injury Prevention
The main injuries ive seen on court with the guys was generally
- Patella tendinitis (man i cant spell that shit lol)
- Tight achilles tendon
- general Knee injuries which can be protected by the above strength trainings. Its pretty common for new guys to come to my gym with really weak knees. After several weeks of squats they notice a remarkeable difference in there game play due to having stronger turns while on court as the knees no longer give them as much trouble.
- Ankles are also a major one i see regularly here. So look into strengthening that if possible

Endurance and hiit
- i would do 3km light runs whenever possible to increase your aerobic ability if your in off-season.
- Hiit is good for your anerobic short burst speed as u come into pre-season.
- Ive found most are good at the Hiit stuff but some wont last the distance (pun intended lol).. If its a tough grueling physical match.
- Have u tested your beep times on court yet? What did u get ?


Hope this helps.

 

[Stewstews]

Thanks TrentZor. If I lived in Sydney...

Will draw up a plan based on:
Monday PM Bball game.
Tuesday PM Strength program. Bench, Deads.
Wednesday PM 4km run.
Thursday PM Strength program. OHP, Squat.
Friday PM Plyometrics + rehab/preventative items.
Saturday AM HIIT Drills + Bball training.

Won't begin plyo's until hit those targets. Friday can be extra work targeting specific imbalances and prevention until ready for plyo's.

Are you saying pick 2 or 3 accessories to complete after Tue/Thurs strength is done? Probably will take me past an hour in the gym anyway so sounds about right! Will make sure are useful for imbalances.

There isn't really an off-season as they run two seasons back to back, so perhaps will need to work a lap of the tan (~4km) weekly in there - possibly Wednesday or Sunday if all else fails.

The run and plyo work might be things can do at home, so am not at gym every night and in strife with missus. Get a medicine ball, duradisc, a mat, some boxes probably covers most of it. Rebounder if really keen! (Local gyms don't have them anyway)

Haven't done beep test in 15 years! Was a 15 I believe. A year ago I could run 20km at 4.5min/km. Much less than that now as apart from bball, lack of cardio work and have bigger size. So yes need some endurance back.

Thanks again for your input - hopefully this is useful to other readers!

 

[TrentZor]

Disclaimer: Also Concerning plyos some strength coaches will disagree with me and have u doing them earlier as sometimes they are pressed for time by the play coaches.
But as i mentioned above if u dont have the foundation of strength u could increase your chances of injuries by doing overzealous levels of plyo's

assistance exercises
- yep pick up 1/2 assistance afer your main lifts wherever u feel is a weak chain. example weak hammies do 1 set of GHR/RDL etc. Increase to 2-3 as u get used to this.

Endurance
If your playing back to back seasons (not a big fan of this due to the increased risk of injury) i wouldn't bother with the anerobic 4km run as u will be getting enough time on court.
Just focus on the hiit/general conditioning side.
Only add that in if you feel you are not lasting the full 4 quarters.

i dont know how u lift etc so all advice given is based on whats written here

 

[adamklam]

Stew if your interested, my touch footy team and I do HIIT and agility on Sunday mornings at Albert park.

It's mostly for field sports so not sure how much of it will apply to bball.

 

[Stewstews]

Mate sounds pretty good, at least until I can get the team out to train! Will shoot you a pm

 

[Stewstews]

Back into things...

Ok so had some time away from the gym for various reasons, and back into it now and seeking advice once more

For now I am only able to do two gym sessions a week with any certainty.

Monday - Bball game
Tuesday - Gym
Thursday - Gym
Saturday - Bball practice

Will do recovery rehab or HIIT when, if time and as needed. Plyo's down the track for the moment.

Given this I am trying to decide what to do on the Tues & Thurs, with say 1-1.5 hours max time available. Full body? Split program?

I'm aware I should probably start off with a "beginner's program" again to get my lifts higher given the time away from the gym. But would like to get a bit more "single" work in there, e.g. fixing imbalances, working ankle stabilisers etc.

So one of the popular beginner programs around here is:

Squat 3 x 10
Bench press 3 x 8
Bent row 3 x 8
Military press 3 x 8
SLDL 3 x 8
BB curl 3 x 8

Thinking of alternates I could add/swap/complement to this program, e.g. for legs:
Bulgarian Split Squats
Lunges
Single Leg SLDL ("SLSLDL" ??!)

Overall due to injury history, imbalances and posture; I need most work on upper back/thoracic (v. poor here), abs/core, glutes and hammies, ankles/feet. Great if I can get a program still full of compounds, that gives good emphasis on these.

I've struggled to give these areas enough attention in a full-body program, 1hr15 sessions. Thus my thoughts on a split program.

Following Starting Strength when I first started got me bigger/stronger but imbalances and comparatively weak areas remained.. so want to be smart about it this time.

I welcome any input!

 

[adamklam]

Do an upper / lower split. And do your prehab / rehab every session.

 

[nazzysmith]

Ok so had some time away from the gym for various reasons, and back into it now and seeking advice once more

For now I am only able to do two gym sessions a week with any certainty.

Monday - Bball game
Tuesday - Gym
Thursday - Gym
Saturday - Bball practice

Will do recovery rehab or HIIT when, if time and as needed. Plyo's down the track for the moment.

Given this I am trying to decide what to do on the Tues & Thurs, with say 1-1.5 hours max time available. Full body? Split program?

I'm aware I should probably start off with a "beginner's program" again to get my lifts higher given the time away from the gym. But would like to get a bit more "single" work in there, e.g. fixing imbalances, working ankle stabilisers etc.

So one of the popular beginner programs around here is:


Thinking of alternates I could add/swap/complement to this program, e.g. for legs:
Bulgarian Split Squats
Lunges
Single Leg SLDL ("SLSLDL" ??!)

Overall due to injury history, imbalances and posture; I need most work on upper back/thoracic (v. poor here), abs/core, glutes and hammies, ankles/feet. Great if I can get a program still full of compounds, that gives good emphasis on these.

I've struggled to give these areas enough attention in a full-body program, 1hr15 sessions. Thus my thoughts on a split program.

Following Starting Strength when I first started got me bigger/stronger but imbalances and comparatively weak areas remained.. so want to be smart about it this time.

I welcome any input!

Please identify weak areas.


Back squat
Flat bench
Ohp
Row
Chin/lat pull down
SLDL
Curls

Twice a week should cover off all bases...

 

[Stewstews]

Do an upper / lower split. And do your prehab / rehab every session.

Might write something up and see what you think. May drop by your thread and see what you're doing - you balance sport pretty well with developing your lifts!

 

[Stewstews]

Please identify weak areas.

Thanks for your input Nazzy!

In terms of areas needing extra attention: Upper back, and ankle/foot stabilisers absolutely need work. Abs and glutes need some work as they are "lazy" muscles for me. Possibly hammies.

Strengths? By far chest and anteroir delts.

In summary:
Chest >>> upper back
Core << lower back
Quads > Hammies

And in doing a program purely on squat, bench, OHP, deadlift, I found these imbalances remained, my poor posture associated with the imbalances remained, and my foot/ankle stability didn't change.

So I want to get the benefits of these compound lift programs, but balanced to help "catch up" the poorer muscles.

Having an opportunity to have more unilateral work could also be good for stabilisers in general (not just ankle).