• Keep up to date with Ausbb via Twitter and Facebook. Please add us!
  • Join the Ausbb - Australian BodyBuilding forum

    If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact contact us.

    The Ausbb - Australian BodyBuilding forum is dedicated to no nonsense muscle and strength building. If you need advice that works, you have come to the right place. This forum focuses on building strength and muscle using the basics. You will also find that the Ausbb- Australian Bodybuilding Forum stresses encouragement and respect. Trolls and name calling are not allowed here. No matter what your personal goals are, you will be given effective advice that produces results.

    Please consider registering. It takes 30 seconds, and will allow you to get the most out of the forum.

Box Squat - sit down or sit back?

Dancelot

New member
I'm going to start doing box squat as a squat assistance exercise when I start PTC PPP in a week. Most resources I've found on the Web point to sitting back while box squatting, but they're also American and squat low-bar. I squat high-bar, so does that mean I should be sitting down on the box and not sitting back?

Also, how high should the box be or should I use boxes of various heights?

Thanks!
 
Did Markos tell you to do bx squats in the program?

Box squats dont have very good carryover to raw squats, especially if theyre done high bar. They're specifically designed to imitate the the pause youd get sitting back in a multi-ply squat.

I'd give them the skip tbh.
 
We use box squats quite a bit. They are a great glute developer and teach people how to sit back.

Nick squats high bar close stance, but has done a 200kg box squat to a 29cm box.

we also do bench squats, 42cm bench, Max can do over 200kg like this.

The guys with the stronger glutes do the most weight on boxes and benches. Guys that are quad dominany struggle.

Gym Direct have a pic of Max doing box squats with bands on their website, well over 200kg on his back.

We have always done box squats at PTC, regardless of the lifters technique.

As far as box heights go, Nina has used as low as 15cm box, the tallest is 42cm bench, the norm is 30cm, its lower than parallel for 90% of lifters.

You must stop dead on the box, no touch and go, you need to fire the glutes to get moving.
 
I really dont think theyd have much of a raw carryover. Wendler, Kroc and the IPF guys dont use them either.

Wendler said:
TM: If you had to choose between the free squat and the box squat, what would you choose? My no BS, non-PC answer is this: free squats will trump anything in the weight room for sports. The recovery time is slower than box squats, but that should tell you something- it's a harder movement and requires more muscle, coordination, strength, etc.

This is easily seen by leg (quad and hamstring) and glute development of a free squatter vs. a box squatter. Box squatters usually have comparatively poor leg development. Some people will argue that you can make up for it with lunges, step-ups, or something similar. But all this tells me is that you could kill two birds with one stone simply by squatting without a box. (Remember training economy? You should, it's important).

Also, remember that teaching a free squat and having athletes do it correctly isn't as hard as you're probably making it. They DO NOT have to be 100% correct with their form; I'm not even close to what most people will say is perfect squat form, but I still get a lot out of it.

I believe that it's easier to teach box squats, but most of the problems that people have squatting (besides being scared or whatever) stems from lacking the proper mobility. To me, training for sports is two things: 1) Having the mobility to get into the proper position for sporting performance, and 2) Having the strength to maintain the position or move from the position.

That's really it. If someone can perform a free squat correctly, or at least fairly correct, that tells me that they're probably mobile enough to do most anything on the court, ice, or field. (Not always, mind you, but it's a good indicator.) So perhaps those guys who absolutely suck at free squats need their training to address the other problems that they're having.

I also think that three to four workouts to "find" their squat form is fine. You can use these weeks for some lower volume/less intensity work and have them build from there.

But I'm not entirely convinced that one needs to throw away the box squat either as it does have great applications, especially for those with knee problems. And some people are just awful free squatters...AWFUL. For these people, the box is fine.

Just remember that you have to treat the box squat as a separate exercise. Many lifters make the mistake of getting good at box squats, thinking that there is a carryover to free squats; it's only when they go out to free squat and shit themselves miserably that they realize that the carryover is limited at best.

That brings me to something that I've learned the hard way- the box squat transfers better to a geared free squat than to a raw free squat. I've seen this in my own training and countless others. Remember, a squat suit will stop you in the hole, much like a box would. And the suit/briefs will rocket you out of the hole, too.

So getting back to whether to choose a free squat or a box squat, the real question you have to ask is this: is it important to be good at the free squat, or is it just important that you (or your athletes) perform a squatting movement of some type i.e. box, free, Zercher, belt, etc?

You have to determine that for yourself, but in a perfect world, the free squat would be the number one squatting exercise for me.
 
Oli, yes it's listed in the PPP as an assistance exercise. I'm told that it helps lifters build up strength in the hole. I also read that Louie Simmons says it has a carry over to sumo deadlift, which is the style I use.

Thanks Markos. That picture of Max on Gym Direct explains a lot.
 
Hmm that's an interesting article, Oli. Thanks for that :)

Personally I don't need box squat to improve form in my free squat. I just thought better performance in the hole and the sumo deadlift carryover will be worth it.

I'll give it a try next time to have a feel for it, then decide.
 
All the stuff Jim said is fantastic, and he uses real world results, just like I do, with drug free, equipment free lifters, the kind I train and give opinion too.

Box squats hasnt hurt our squatting one bit, but its an assistance exercise to squats, and a damn good one.
 
The purpose of an assistance exercise should be to taget a weakness or imbalance. If your not weak out of the hole don't do box squats. If you are weak out of the hole there is not much better than box squats.

I only lose about 5kg going from free sq to box sq, strong glutes, no need to box squat for me.

Unless you really have a weakness in the glutes I would do good mornings and front squats as squat assistance work.
Posted via Mobile Device
 
I have been pretty much Westside taught so I am a big believer in Box squats (or variation of) for a main exercise - but Iam now seeing the advantages of getting guys to free squat.

I think for beginners - box squat all the way 1. to teach them to squat low enough and 2. develop glute/ham/lower back/hip strength - you can NEVER be to strong in this area.

But I have found that for guys in particular leading upto a comp its better for them to free squat - in there comp prep - outside of that I would not have a prob and even may suggest to them to always box squat.

At Westside all they do is box squating (100's of variations) and will only free squat the day of the comp - it seems to work for them but maybe not everyone.

I still think Box squatting has its place as being a main exercise but maybe not all yr round.
 
Westside also only trains world class, steroid using equiped lifters. Raw, drug free amateurs will need to train differently.
Posted via Mobile Device
 
The purpose of an assistance exercise should be to taget a weakness or imbalance. If your not weak out of the hole don't do box squats. If you are weak out of the hole there is not much better than box squats.

I only lose about 5kg going from free sq to box sq, strong glutes, no need to box squat for me.

Unless you really have a weakness in the glutes I would do good mornings and front squats as squat assistance work.
Posted via Mobile Device

Thanks Nick, that makes a lot of sense.

I'm not weak out of the hole although the faster I get out of it, the more beneficial, I guess, hence I thought of box squatting. When I fail, it's always half way up. Been doing good mornings and front squat, and I think I'll skip box squat and stick to those instead.
 
Westside also only trains world class, steroid using equiped lifters. Raw, drug free amateurs will need to train differently.
Posted via Mobile Device

Oh yea for sure man! - totally agree - thats why its very hard for a unequiped, raw lifter to use a full westside template - i.e westside lifter will only max effort deadlift (variation of) every 4-6 weeks - for a raw, drug free lifter its impossible (or close to) to improve like this.

Your brought up some good points tho man!
 
should you wear flat shoes or raise heel shoes when doing box squats?

since the box squat targets the posterior chain more it seems counterproductive to use raise heel shoes. Maybe it will make no difference.
 
should you wear flat shoes or raise heel shoes when doing box squats?

since the box squat targets the posterior chain more it seems counterproductive to use raise heel shoes. Maybe it will make no difference.

The variance in motor patterns might be problematic though.
 
i used flat shoes for box squats today. i think ill stay with flat for posterior chain movements. good mornings as well. I'm going to try and not wear my squat shoes for everything. just back squats, front squats and overhead and any Olympic stuff i do and maybe bench for added leg drive (test it out this week).

i've been really impressed with box squats. i've done them for the last 4 weeks and can defiantly see an improvement in squats. getting out of a chair is alot easier.
 
My lifters wear Chucks on box squats. Seeing we do them to learn to sit back, it doesnt make sense to elevate the heel.

I know its different to how we squat, but its a great movement for the glutes and hams, plus it has carryover to deadlift.

Prior to the Vics, Vicki was having MASSIVE issues with her squat. She even came in Friday night before to work on them. Two sessions on the box fixed her, she went on and squatted 75kg @ 58kg and 38yo. Thats a great squat for an old bird lol

She now does box squats as an assistance exercise for squats AND deadlifts, doing them either once or twice a week.
 
Fair enough.
My only caveat is when trainees sit/rest on the box rather than just touching I suppose all exercises have there degree of danger.
I know one or two that place a piece of sponge sheet on the box, as soon as they feel contact they lift off.
I have siad it before a poor tradesman blames his tools.
Posted via Mobile Device
 
Top