That may be the case, but I know how much effort I put in, at least intially just for the bench press! That was painful and time consuming (not bad painful). My chest may not be huge, but at least I have pecs and I truly earned them ! Working 50+ hours per week, (which does require sometimes heavly physical input - freight handling and transportation) does not really allow me to prioritise energy input into gym, hence it may need to take second stage at times. Then there is the family, household choirs etc.. So whilst I am perhaps guilty of asking for "assistance" (in the form of juice)I don't really feel bad about it, if it can improve my life, I can do better things with it.