Are there any popular workouts that you find overused and not very effective? (

bozodos · Apr 26, 2014

Yeah I have Beyond 5/3/1 it all got a bit confusing for me at that point.

Most PT's I know of do a lot of machines - some do treadmill as part of their paid time as well, I've told the mrs to tell hers she wants to do weights only, as it's a waste of fkn time to get a trainer for a treadmill. I would have thought that they would do things like teach you how to squat properly, since nearly everyone I know does this weird hybrid of high and low bar. My gym's PT's are also VERY vocal YorHealth shills.

0ni · Apr 26, 2014

bozodos said:
RyanF: did you ever look at 5/3/1 variants such as 8/6/3? Usually most of the criticism is aimed at Wendler's vagueness about assistance work, or that the progression is 'too slow' (i personally don't agree if you derive your TM from your true 1RM).

I found doing 5 day body part splits totally ineffective as a rank beginner; I got more strength and better looking legs from squatting 3 times a week rather than doing leg curls, squat, leg extension, leg press, seated and standing calf raises on 'leg day', which not only gave me crippling DOMS the next day, but didn't seem to really make any difference week to week.

Any ridiculous "movie star" workouts which are usually a variation on the junk in muscle mags

The routines that the "PT"s at the gym hand out, which are all on Nautilus machines followed up with db curls, db flyes and shoulder press. No barbell work at all.

People that tihnk the progression on 5/3/1 is "too slow" are fucking idiots
What does that even mean? The progression is too slow? So fucking what? You're breaking rep PBs all the time so who honestly gives a fucking shit if the progression is "too slow"

Oh no!! The weights only increased 2.5kg over a month!! Lets ignore the fact that this last month I broke 12 different reb PBs on major exercises, boo hoo
Fucking degenerates

0ni · Apr 26, 2014

Rugby88 said:
Anyone can do a 5 day split, just like anyone could do a 3 day or 4 day split - just because its 5 days doesnt mean its isolation based - I dont think anyone who has any idea how to train would simply do isolation movements - your always going to have your core lifts in there like bench, deadlift, squat, mil press, bent over rows, db rows, db bench, etc etc - its not about designing a split around the cable machine haha - alot of strength athletes and powerlifters will still do a 4 or 5 day split with "bodybuilding" movements in there - I dont think a strength athlete should shy away from thoughs movements nor should a bodybuilder shy away from those core movements - you'll find the most succesfull lifters will normally have a good mix between the 2.

And at the end of the day its what you put into a program that will = the results you get out of it....

mon: legs
tue: chest
wed: back
thurs: shoulders
fri: arms
Such a terrible bodybuilding work-out, will never make progress on this split

mon: squat
tue: bench
wed: deadlift
thurs: press
fri: arms
Beautiful, perfectly set up strength training that will get you strong and jacked

apparently

0ni · Apr 26, 2014

Jungman said:
What are your thoughts on Beyond 5/3/1 where Wendler introduces the concept of joker sets and 1 AMRAP down set which addresses both top end strength and strength endurance work? The Down Sets are for adding some high rep work but not necessary if you're doing high rep assistance. Joker Sets are awesome though, I try to do them every day and love it.

Yeah, daily undulating periodisation is probably one of the most important things after actually training hard
It's important to do little, random things each session. Muscle confusion 4 lyfe I guess haha. Also sometimes you may not feel like doing 5x10. Why would you do it? Maybe the idea of some rest paused dropsets is more appealing. Sometimes its fun to work up others you just don't want to

Rugby88 · Apr 26, 2014

0ni said:
mon: legs
tue: chest
wed: back
thurs: shoulders
fri: arms
Such a terrible bodybuilding work-out, will never make progress on this split

mon: squat
tue: bench
wed: deadlift
thurs: press
fri: arms
Beautiful, perfectly set up strength training that will get you strong and jacked

apparently

Haha - I see what you did there....

RyanF · Apr 26, 2014

0ni said:
mon: legs
tue: chest
wed: back
thurs: shoulders
fri: arms
Such a terrible bodybuilding work-out, will never make progress on this split

mon: squat
tue: bench
wed: deadlift
thurs: press
fri: arms
Beautiful, perfectly set up strength training that will get you strong and jacked

apparently

A lot of truth right here.

Bazza20 · Apr 26, 2014

RyanF said:
A lot of truth right here.

Really? I get the joke but it doesn't work in my opinion. I don't like the PL influenced spit given in the example either.

RyanF · Apr 26, 2014

A common PL split probably won't have a day for arms, and might space out the days a bit more. Still, a squat day, a bench day, a deadlift day, and either a press day or a second bench day is nothing out of the ordinary, and plenty of powerlifters will swear by such a split.

Bazza20 · Apr 26, 2014

RyanF said:
A common PL split probably won't have a day for arms, and might space out the days a bit more. Still, a squat day, a bench day, a deadlift day, and either a press day or a second bench day is nothing out of the ordinary, and plenty of powerlifters will swear by such a split.

If you run it like powerlifters would then the comparison with the body part split fails to work anymore.

Rugby88 · Apr 26, 2014

Bazza20 said:
Really? I get the joke but it doesn't work in my opinion. I don't like the PL influenced spit given in the example either.

What do you mean the powerlifting influenced split? @0ni ; point was its the samething - those core lifts are still at the centre of a bodybuilding program or powerlifting program - this is prob one of the smartest things 0ni has ever posted - it shows how narrow minded people are...

No. 1 is a bbing split -

mon: legs
tue: chest
wed: back
thurs: shoulders
fri: arms
Such a terrible bodybuilding work-out, will never make progress on this split

No.2 is a bbing split - same program as above

mon: squat
tue: bench
wed: deadlift
thurs: press
fri: arms
Beautiful, perfectly set up strength training that will get you strong and jacked

I think the point is people come out and say bodybuilding splits dont work, isolation blah blah - when you break it down your "core" lifts are still at the centre of the program it has simply been broken up abit more....as I mentioned above I think some people think that a 5 day split is focused around the cable machine haha - simply lack of knowledge from a programming point of view if you think a 5 day split is "isolation" work.

Bazza20 · Apr 26, 2014

Rugby88 said:
What do you mean the powerlifting influenced split? [MENTION=8399]0ni[/MENTION]; point was its the samething - those core lifts are still at the centre of a bodybuilding program or powerlifting program - this is prob one of the smartest things 0ni has ever posted - it shows how narrow minded people are...

mon: legs
tue: chest
wed: back
thurs: shoulders
fri: arms
Such a terrible bodybuilding work-out, will never make progress on this split

mon: squat
tue: bench
wed: deadlift
thurs: press
fri: arms
Beautiful, perfectly set up strength training that will get you strong and jacked

I think the point is people come out and say bodybuilding splits dont work, isolation blah blah - when you break it down your "core" lifts are still at the centre of the program it has simply been broken up abit more....as I mentioned above I think some people think that a 5 day split is focused around the cable machine haha - simply lack of knowledge from a programming point of view if you think a 5 day split is "isolation" work.

Only a moron could think they are the same thing or comparable.

For example what do powerlifters do for assistance on bench day. Often triceps, rows and shoulders. How does that resemble a chest day in the fucking slightest.

Personally I fucking hate body part splits because the best exercises can't be broken down into a body part.

canned tuna · Apr 26, 2014

My point is that once a week frequency (5 day bb split) was ineffective for me, and a lot of people do them
I'm sure a lot of people will agree that you don't need 6 days to recover from squatting, benching, bicep curling, or front-lateral-bosu-ball-raises

Sent from my HTC_PN071 using Tapatalk

Rugby88 · Apr 26, 2014

Bazza20 said:
Only a moron could think they are the same thing or comparable.

For example what do powerlifters do for assistance on bench day. Often triceps, rows and shoulders. How does that resemble a chest day in the fucking slightest.

Personally I fucking hate body part splits because the best exercises can't be broken down into a body part.

DUDE the point is that its the same split just reads differently - i.e

Monda - Legs

SQUATS
Leg press
stiff deads

Etc etc

Tuesday - Chest

BENCH
incline dbs
flys

etc etc

Wed - back

DEADLIFTS
bent over row
lat pulldown

etc etc

Thursday - shoulders

MIL PRESS
db laterals
rear delt raise

etc etc

Friday - arms

Barbell curl
Close grip bench

We are not talking about PL V BB - 0ni is simply pointing out the narrow mindness of people when it comes to 5 day splits - its not all about isolation movements and fucking around with the cable machine or machines...

I think your missing the point

Shrek · Apr 26, 2014

^^^^^
That's how I perceive it as well.

Darkoz · Apr 26, 2014

I don't like the one body part a day split
but I do like the legs/push/pull split

spartacus · Apr 26, 2014

Darkoz said:
I don't like the one body part a day split
but I do like the legs/push/pull split

me too, that is what I am doing at moment

hugoti · Apr 26, 2014

What's your opinion on Beginners AllPro's workout? This is what I'm doing - full body compound movement workouts 3 times a week and no isolations!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Darkoz · Apr 26, 2014

spartacus said:
me too, that is what I am doing at moment

Over the years spart I've done pretty much every type of split, full body etc. as I'm sure you have too
but the legs/push/pull split has always served me best, I like the muscle grouping and I like the frequency which allows me to work each muscle group every 4 days or so, it's the sweet spot for me.

0ni · Apr 26, 2014

Darkoz said:
I don't like the one body part a day split
but I do like the legs/push/pull split

Similar to what I am doing and I like it

Rugby88 · Apr 26, 2014

I think if your doing zero "isolation" work you are really cutting your results short this is from a bbing/sports/PLing point of view....

Are there any popular workouts that you find overused and not very effective? (

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