About becoming a personal trainer

-LJ- said:

Hi Kyle, would a gym instructor be a more stable job compared to a PT?

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Begin by remembering that no-one needs any kind of qualification on paper or from experience to call themselves a trainer, and charge people for their services - to be self-employed. I assume you think self-employment is not "a stable job". It can be, but usually isn't.

In practice, you need some experience or qualifications to get other people to employ you. So we'll talk about practice.

A gym instructor will only work in a gym. However, because the courses are quick to get, gyms tend to hire only people with both Cert III (GI) and Cert IV (PT). So a gym instructor is probably unemployed.

A PT can work in a gym, or be self-employed. Some PTs work in mainstream gyms, but are actually self-employed - the gym charges them rent for the gym space, and/or takes a cut of their fees. That's the big chains, the smaller places just hire people normally.

A gym instructor can just work in a gym with healthy adults. A PT can specialise with various courses and jobs.

Some PTs only work with the elderly, some only with the disabled, some only with rehabilitation, some only with children, some only with footballers, and so on. If you get a qualified, experienced and good PT, when a client shows up with diabetes or scoliosis or something, they won't have to look up on the internet what that condition is.

In general, whether the employment with someone else is stable depends on the particular workplace. Some places sign you up and you're there as long as you don't burn the place down. Others hire and fire at whim with no real reason behind it all.

Today I did a test cycle in to RMIT, 23km. I'm sure once I'm familiar with the route I can do the cycle in, lock up bike and change t-shirt in 1hr30'. That 4 times a week (I'll train it home) should help in this month's cutting efforts.

At RMIT I sorted out my payments, and also met up with Noodles and Gibbo, who are joining me for the course. Yesterday the woman there said there were only 8 people signed up for the course, so with my 2 mates that's 10. Why so few? Probably lack of advertisement; their website does not mention the full-time summer course at all. People won't go if they don't know it's on.

Having just 10 in the class is practically personal tutoring. No more sniggering down the back of the class! That plus repeating half the material should mean we have a pretty thorough learning experience. And it'll be good to have a couple of familiar faces.

Kyle, do you think that maybe the tide has turned. Not long ago everybody thought what a great idea it would be to be a PT, and simply did the course with no weight training experience ( I had a client who did this). Never worked one day as a PT.

Are gyms and lifters wising up to this, and PT's struggling to make a buck?

Prior to Nick working as a PT, the only PT I knew personally that I have recommended to others was working at FF. This guy had lots of lifting experience, phenomonal physique, strong (won a PTC comp), worked in a large commercial premises, and lost money hand over fist, so much so that 9 months into his 12 month lease, he bailed, and FF kept withdrawing funds.

He was losing money working as a PT.

He has moved on to greener pastures, actually you guys have flipped lol

Whats your opinion on this, is it slowing down?

Working where I do, I only ever hear about horror stories, I get NO positive feedback on PT's, obviously there are some brilliant ones out there, and I'll never see the clients training with them because theyre happy where they are.

Do we start another thread maybe about positive experiences with PT's? I would be extremely interested to here what process the good ones use.

You start it Kyle....please

I couldn't speak about the ups and downs of the industry as a whole. If there is a downturn, it might also not be because of attitudes to fitness or PTs, but just the economy generally - when times are hard, you cut luxuries, and people view fitness instruction as a luxury.

Yes, viewing instruction as a luxury shows that the instructors have failed in one sense. After all, most people give up in the first few months, and most people have no instruction... so perhaps not a luxury, more of a necessity - if you want to get any benefit from your gym membership or equipment.

I wouldn't recommend anyone work for a gym where they're required to rent space. I'd say, "If this gym can guarantee me clients, why wouldn't they just pay me a salary and pocket the client's money themselves? They must expect that I'll have few clients."

Yes, it's true you'll meet few people happy with PTs where you work.

I'll start a thread.

The workplace placement at RMIT for PT students is simply the RMIT gym. As part of this, they offer people 4 PT sessions at $5 each. It's a bit like when you go to hairdressing college for a cheap haircut.

It's free for fitness students, and they signed me up. I can always learn something new, I'm happy to help out, and also it gives an idea of what things will be like for me.

Today was just the initial assessment of health, mobility and posture. I met the teacher and introduced myself, my impression is that he's very attentive and switched-on. For example, they took my blood pressure. They have double stethoscopes so the teacher can listen in. The PT student made it as 124/80*, the teacher said, "I made it as 118/80." Now, in practical terms that's nothing. I could take a few deep breaths or see a nice-looking woman walk by and my blood pressure would change by more than that. So that shows a certain degree of precision in the teaching...

The PT student also said that it was all very thorough; in his part-time course (Tues & Sat) they had a test every second Tuesday. They absolutely had to learn everything in the book. Which makes me glad I had a head start with Cert III first...!

* Normal healthy BP is 120/80, I'd expected mine to be higher since I'd cycled in and only had 15 minutes' rest. Maybe I'm getting fitter or something...

After the first week at RMIT...

It is shtloads better. Much, much more thorough. And we're learning exercise technique! It's not powerlifting or bodybuilding technique, just general strength and fitness, so there are few differences in technique - obviously for the course I follow their way, after that, well I can take all the different ways and my own experience and suss out what I reckon is best, just as we all do.

Much more well-organised - we've been given a sheet showing what we'll learn each day (morning theory, afternoon practical in the gym), what reading is required for that day, what assignments are relevant to that lesson and when they're due, and...

When we'll be quizzed on it all - every fortnight, three 20 question multiple choice quizzes, takes about an hour. If we get less than 100%, we're immediately told what we got wrong, we note it down, and then at the end of the course do a new quiz of just those questions.

It's going to be a challenge to pass, a lot of anatomy to learn, some 48 or so muscles or muscle groups with all their origins, insertions, joint actions and so on.

Noodles (who has asked me not to call him that in person, which I respect, but here I continue for the sake of his privacy) and the G-Man have joined me in the course. We have 12 students in all, none of them as colourful or... learning-challenged as in the Holmesglen group.

One teacher is friendly and professional, tells bad jokes, the other did three years at drama school and it shows! Today he demonstrated the sympathetic nervous system's fight/flight response by going up to the sleepiest student and screaming "AAAAAARGH!" at him. The guy woke up and then had to have a toilet break.

Both are involved in osteopathy and are very, very knowledgeable. No teachers reading from the book in this course

Ok getting some mixed opinions on TAFE, is it good or not? Where the hell should I study then?
I don't really want a quick fix like this short courses people are given, 5.000 is pretty steep and I'm already in a debt.

Dunno where you are, mate, so can't advise.

RMIT is bloody good, but not cheap - cheaper than useless AIF, though.

TAFE is pretty ordinary, but it's cheap, and the mixed opinions can help you. You get out of education what you put into it, so if you go to TAFE, work hard, do your own extra research, and perform well in your practical placement, you ought to do alright for employment.

Just don't go to AIF, nobody wants to employ those guys.

Do they teach "correct" stuff? LIke the kind of stuff in Marks book, or will they tell me half squats are what is correct?

TAFE doesn't seem to teach exercise technique at all, nor do AIF.

RMIT is teaching us, "each exercise has benefits and risks, there are no bad exercises, it's all about what your aims are." For example, rolling your arse in the air rounds the lumbar spine and is, they say, bad for most people; but if, they say, you were a gymnast or diver, it'd be a necessary part of your training.

Situps have not been taught, instead it's prone braces and the like. The exercise section begins with "core exercises", and says in large bold type,

Every exercise can be, is, and should be a core exercise.​

After the core exercise section is barbell squat, deadlift, chins, etc. We've spent each morning on theory, each afternoon on exercise technique and teaching that technique. We've been told that the compound exercises are the essential ones to learn.

Their example routines all have at least one compound lift for each of chest, back and legs, then usually something like a prone brace. The teachers have been extremely picky about form.

But really, if all you want to do is Rippetoe's stuff, fly to the US and get a coaching certificate from him. Or set yourself up as a trainer following his method here, you don't need a piece of paper to hang out a sign, you can do it tomorrow.

I'd recommend broader education and experience, though. Rippetoe is not the be-all and end-all of physical training, he's mostly just about the healthy young adult males. If you only ever intend to train healthy young adult males, that's great.

But if you get an overweight middle-aged woman with incipient adult onset diabetes, a ten year old kid with scoliosis, a footballer who wants to improve their game, an elderly person with Parkinson's who wants to maintain some independence, or anything like that, well then you're best off with a broader experience and education.

What is Marks book?

I assumed he meant Mark Rippetoe, Starting Strength and so on. Much praised, rarely read.

Do you think really matters where you go?
It seems these courses are just a means of allowing you to teach.
By enabling you to register and insure or protect yourself from people I injuring themselves and sueing?

I would never go to these organizations hoping to learn anything.

Silverback said:

Do you think really matters where you go?

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Yes.

I've now been to two different institutions, one taught me very little, the other is teaching me a lot. An educational institution is like any other workplace, they vary a lot in productiveness because of the individual personalities, and the particular combination of those individuals. Put me with Jim and I might be extraordinary as a worker, put me with Bob and I might be useless.

Silverback said:

By enabling you to register and insure or protect yourself from people I injuring themselves and sueing?

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Being qualified (on paper) and registered doesn't stop you being sued, it just makes it easier to get insurance against being sued, so that even if you lose you won't be bankrupted.

And if you can demonstrate that you followed industry standards, makes it more likely you'll win your case.

If your education was a decent one and you actually did follow industry standards, it also makes it less likely your clients will be injured and have anything to sue you about; things might still happen as accidents do, but you should at least be able to avoid anything obviously stupid and dangerous.

Silverback said:

I would never go to these organizations hoping to learn anything.

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If you begin a course assuming that your teachers have nothing to teach you, you will indeed learn nothing from them.

Education requires a certain humility, an attitude that everyone has something to teach me (even if they themselves don't think so!), however small that something might be, and that at the same time nobody - not even brilliant me - knows everything.

The teachers may be ignorant fools, or they may not be. But if I assume they're ignorant fools, I won't learn anything whether they are or not. If I assume they have something, however small, to teach me - then I might learn something. If I'm so smart I have nothing to learn from these teachers, I'm also smart enough to tell nonsense from the good stuff. So I should listen.

Earlier in this thread someone was asking about doing this course, and I advised him not to, because he began with the attitude that everyone else would be ignorant morons. For the same reasons, I would not advise you, Silverback, to do a course like this.

You should read the thread thoroughly, Silverback. "PTs and PT teachers are all ignorant fools," we've been through it all before. It's getting old.

Well Aaron, it looks like we do have something in common.

Today I did a workout with a woman on the course, her background is rowing and aerobics instructor, she has excellent core stability. She needs to gain some strength to fix up imbalances, as do I.

But I need to strengthen mostly back and legs, and she legs and chest and also sprint-type fitness (for the final legs of rowing races), and I am overall stronger than her (I have 20kg on her!), making it hard for us to do a workout together in the short time at lunch (allowing about 30 of the 60 minutes for it). So we decided to instruct each-other on alternate days.

It was interesting that earlier the teacher had been talking about mental limits and physical limits. We went over to the squat rack.

She warmed up with the bar without a problem, 20 easy quick reps. I handed her 2x10kg plates, "Load 'em up, that's the first part of your upper body work."
"Gee thanks." She did 12 super-easy reps.
"Well done, that was 40kg, let's make it 50kg."
"Okay." Another dozen easy reps.
"Alright, 60kg."
"I've never lifted that much, that's more than my bodyweight, the other day I put a girl that size over my shoulder, we fell down."
"She probably wriggled around, I promise the weights won't try to get away."
"I don't know..."
"Come on, you did 50kg 12 times easy, you should be able to manage a few of 60kg, let's go for 5."
"Hmmm."
"Relax, if the weight is too much, that's what the racks are for. Plus I'm a qualified first aider."

What do you know, she did it easily, and then another set after that

I did the same with her with overhead press, there she had the issue that when we got near her max lift she kept laughing, nobody can lift when laughing, once I was benching my normal warmup, my mate cracked a joke and I dropped it

Then a series of pushups with grip narrower each time, again "I can't" and "Just give it a go," and then she went and did it.

The mind gives up long before the body is exhausted. This is a great advantage of a training partner or trainer, they don't let you slack off.

We flipped a coin, I'll train her tomorrow, and she'll have her revenge the following day. Let's say about 25 minutes for the lifts and 5 minutes for stretches afterwards, let's say,

deadlift, 1x warmup, 2x work sets
overhead press, 1x warmup, 2x work sets
pushups, 3x failure
allowing 2'00" per set = 9x2'00" = 18'00"
Tabata thrusters, 8 sets @ 20" work and 10" rest as usual, 4'00"
or 22'00" in all

I'm sure Katie approves

Heh, just what are you referring to??

So things are much much better at RMIT than TAFE?

RMIT is a tafe too

katie said:

Heh, just what are you referring to??

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I'm referring to my impression that you would approve of a woman doing heavy lifting and things that make her sweat her guts out and have a love/hate relationship with the person training her

katie said:

So things are much much better at RMIT than TAFE?

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Yes, shtloads. Haven't you been reading?

Morgan said:

RMIT is a tafe too

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It is, but this is actually a private company, whether within or associated with or a symbiotic parasite on RMIT I'm not entirely sure.

Today we didn't work out, as my training partner wasn't up to it, I think she's another Keen Katie and has been working herself a bit too hard. But tomorrow...

At lunch we all chatted and dissed AIF and Fitness First.

Tomorrow we have three quizzes, each of 20 multiple choice questions. The first is communication, SMART goals and all that stuff. Secondly, the skeleton. Lastly, muscles. It'll be things like "looking at diagram 2, muscle A is the _____ and its joint actions are ________" with the choices being "(a) biceps brachii, elbow flexion, (b) biceps brachii, elbow extension, (c) triceps, elbow extension, (d) quadratus lumborum, wrist extension." That sort of thing.

We have to get 100%.

The test was surprisingly easy. 100%. I couldn't have done it without having studied, though.

My training partner was eager to work out today. We did deadlifts, overhead press, and then Tabata thrusters. She did 58 with 6kg dumbells, and wanted to give up by the third set, but like Markos did with me, just a quiet word "keep going" and she did it. "That was horrible... but great!"

One of my teachers was actually doing a real PT session nearby, he kept dropping comments in to keep me on the ball and professional. I hope the same happens when she trains me next week!