5x5 Program

[hunta]

Gday guys, I have started a 5x5 program (below) almost 4 weeks ago, and i am seeing some decent strength gains (I haven’t missed a lift yet) My goals are to gain muscle size and strength, while keeping body fat sensible, now i am confused because i have been led to believe that strength gains equal equate to muscle gains as it is explained on the website where I discovered this program(google 5x5, second one down. Sorry I cant put URLs yet gotta get my posts up!)
After reading a few of Fadi’s posts ect (very impressive knowledge by the way) I have now been led to believe that strength doesn’t correlate to size . The question I am trying to ask here is this program suitable for my goals of size AND strength or is just good for strength.
Cheers, Joel.





Exercise


Sets x Reps


Details






Monday


Squat

5x5

Ramping weight to top set of 5 (which should equal the previous Friday's heavy triple)
Bench

5x5

Ramping weight to top set of 5 (which should equal the previous Friday's heavy triple)
Barbell Row

5x5

Ramping weight to top set of 5 (which should equal the previous Friday's heavy triple)
Assistance: 2 sets of weighted hypers and 4 sets of weighted sit-ups











Wednesday


Squat

4x5

First 3 sets are the same as Monday, the 4th set is repeating the 3rd set again
Incline or Military

4x5

Ramping weight to top set of 5
Deadlift

4x5

Ramping weight to top set of 5
Assistance: 3 sets of sit-ups












Friday


Squat

4x5, 1x3, 1x8

First 4 sets are the same as Monday's, the triple is 2.5% above your Monday top set of 5, use the weight from the 3rd set for a final set of 8
Bench

4x5, 1x3, 1x8

First 4 sets are the same as Monday's, the triple is 2.5% above your Monday top set of 5, use the weight from the 3rd set for a final set of 8
Barbell Row

4x5, 1x3, 1x8

First 4 sets are the same as Monday's, the triple is 2.5% above your Monday top set of 5, use the weight from the 3rd set for a final set of 8
Assistance: 3 sets of weighted dips (5-8 reps), 3 sets of barbell curls and 3 sets of triceps extensions (8 reps)​

 

[Shrek]

5x5 will definately be suited to your goals. It will give you both size and strength, but only you can determine the bodyfat you put on / keep off based on your diet.

I like to use the spreadsheet found here
Bill Starr 5x5 - Madcow Intermediate or Linear Version

It calculates your poiundages based on you 1rm.
Follow it for the entire 9 weeks. then have 1 week off and repaet.

 

[hunta]

5x5 will definately be suited to your goals. It will give you both size and strength, but only you can determine the bodyfat you put on / keep off based on your diet.

I like to use the spreadsheet found here
Bill Starr 5x5 - Madcow Intermediate or Linear Version
It calculates your poiundages based on you 1rm.
Follow it for the entire 9 weeks. then have 1 week off and repaet.

This is exactly what im doing at the moment shrek, Would you recommend cardio on off days? i have been jogging for 1/2 hr in mornings tues thurs sat ect

 

[Shrek]

Yeah cardio on off days is a great idea.
Jogging is not neccessary, just a brisk walk for 30-45 mins 2-3 times per week.

 

[Kyle Aaron]

Reg Park used a 5x5, 3 full-body workouts per week system, with the first 2 sets being warmups, and the next 3 being the work sets.

Q. Did he develop size or strength?

A. Both.​

He had 50cm arms, 110kg bodyweight, 225kg bench, 275kg squat, 320kg deadlift, and 140kg overhead press.

He had a programme like this:-

Mon - Wed - Fri
* Barbell Curl 4x6-8
* Seated Behind Neck Press 4x6-8 I do not recommend this, try standing military press instead
* Bench Press 5x5
* Barbell Row 4x6-8
* Barbell Squat 5x5
* Deadlift 5x5

Size or strength? You can choose to focus on one or the other, but you cannot develop one without also developing the other. If you make the car engine bigger, it will usually be more powerful; if you make the engine more powerful, it will usually be bigger, too.

Not every big guy is stronger than every smaller guy. But every guy who gets stronger will also get bigger.

If you've not started 5x5 yet, then I suggest you give it a go. If you're doing it and getting results, keep going! Only change if you're no longer getting results.

 

[Shrek]

The only thing I alter when doing 5x5 is some direct calf work. I'll usualy do this on an off day with some cardio. My calves are a weak point for me and must be trained directly.

 

[hunta]

Yeah cardio on off days is a great idea.
Jogging is not neccessary, just a brisk walk for 30-45 mins 2-3 times per week.

Thanks, also do you think performing cardio fasted is more effective ?

 

[hunta]

Reg Park used a 5x5, 3 full-body workouts per week system, with the first 2 sets being warmups, and the next 3 being the work sets.

Q. Did he develop size or strength?​

​

A. Both.​

He had 50cm arms, 110kg bodyweight, 225kg bench, 275kg squat, 320kg deadlift, and 140kg overhead press.

He had a programme like this:-

Mon - Wed - Fri
* Barbell Curl 4x6-8
* Seated Behind Neck Press 4x6-8 I do not recommend this, try standing military press instead
* Bench Press 5x5
* Barbell Row 4x6-8
* Barbell Squat 5x5
* Deadlift 5x5

Size or strength? You can choose to focus on one or the other, but you cannot develop one without also developing the other. If you make the car engine bigger, it will usually be more powerful; if you make the engine more powerful, it will usually be bigger, too.

Not every big guy is stronger than every smaller guy. But every guy who gets stronger will also get bigger.

If you've not started 5x5 yet, then I suggest you give it a go. If you're doing it and getting results, keep going! Only change if you're no longer getting results.

Cheers kyle, I would be more than happy if i could build a physique and lifts like that, i will definitely be contiuning with it.

 

[Kyle Aaron]

I think he also ate about a whole cow a day, too

 

[Shrek]

Thanks, also do you think performing cardio fasted is more effective ?

No it you want to bulk and you are in calorie surpluss.
Fasted cardio I only recommend in calorie deficit ie when cutting (trying to reduce bodyfat)

 

[Fadi]

Hunta,

I read that you want to gain muscle size as well as strength; great!

Now that you've been performing the 5x5 for at least 4 weeks, giving you some solid foundation all over, it may be time to incooperate some rep variety to insure a more comprehensive coverage/inclusion of your muscle fibres.

An example may look like this:

Moday 5x5
Wed 3x10
Fri 2x20

At 16 and starting new, you may have to just "look" at the weights and you'll grow (so to speak).

All the best.


Fadi.

 

[PowerBuilder]

i personally think 5x5 will give you more strength than size, as a result of the rep range. With strength, size will follow, but not the type of size you see with the guys who stand in front of the mirror showing off their 14'" guns.


Give it ago & see what results you get. Worse case scenario, you become super strong & not maintain your size!

 

[Shrek]

Hunta,

I read that you want to gain muscle size as well as strength; great!

Now that you've been performing the 5x5 for at least 4 weeks, giving you some solid foundation all over, it may be time to incooperate some rep variety to insure a more comprehensive coverage/inclusion of your muscle fibres.

An example may look like this:

Moday 5x5
Wed 3x10
Fri 2x20

At 16 and starting new, you may have to just "look" at the weights and you'll grow (so to speak).

All the best.


Fadi.

I wouldn't change the rep scheme until he has completed the 9 weeks bacause he needs to complete the de-loading phase (3x3)
After that then you can play around with some different rep ranges as fadi suggested.

 

[Kyle Aaron]

Despite what Shrek and Fadi are saying, there is no fixed time period after which you should change things. Not 4 weeks, not 2, not 9, not 100.

There are only three rules about any workout programme:

• Sticking to it brings more results than chopping and changing constantly.
• If it gives you results, keep going! If it doesn't, change!
• Usually 4 weeks is the minimum time to see real and significant change from any programme.

Try out your programme for a month and see how you go, and good luck!

 

[Shrek]

No there isn't a fixed time but to reap the full benefits of this program i recommend completing the whole 9 weeks, it was designed that way for a reason.

 

[Fadi]

Hunta,

listen to what Shrek is saying then move on to different things. As a youngster, I'd recommend you keep a full diary from now and record everything from moods, strength levels, appetite, and anything else you feel needs to be included in there.

Please don't be confused by the difference in advice you find from people here; if everyone trained by following only one particular way or opinion, the iron sport as we know it today would not have progressed to where we find it today. So difference in opinion is not something that should be viewed as a negative but rather a positive that you can take and build on as you gain in experience.

Thanks for reading.


Fadi

 

[hunta]

i personally think 5x5 will give you more strength than size, as a result of the rep range. With strength, size will follow, but not the type of size you see with the guys who stand in front of the mirror showing off their 14'" guns.


Give it ago & see what results you get. Worse case scenario, you become super strong & not maintain your size!

Yeah i will definitley follow on with the program and see how i go. When you said that about guys showing off there guns it reminded me of the other day at the gym, there was this one real cocky guy about 18yo i swear he did every single possible bicep exercise you could think of, im talking like 30-40 sets here. Then takes his shirt off and starts flexing.. meanwhile im getting stuck into my deadlifts and he looks at me funny and then says as if their going to do anything what do they work? I was thinking is this guy serious? I just gave him the same funny look he did to me and said pretty much everthing mate.. it made me laugh

No it you want to bulk and you are in calorie surpluss.
Fasted cardio I only recommend in calorie deficit ie when cutting (trying to reduce bodyfat)

No worries, to be honest though i would like to drop a little at the moment, but i think i'll keep on bulking and get the most out of this program.

Despite what Shrek and Fadi are saying, there is no fixed time period after which you should change things. Not 4 weeks, not 2, not 9, not 100.


There are only three rules about any workout programme:

• Sticking to it brings more results than chopping and changing constantly.
• If it gives you results, keep going! If it doesn't, change!
• Usually 4 weeks is the minimum time to see real and significant change from any programme.

Try out your programme for a month and see how you go, and good luck!

Thanks kyle, i'll stick it out and let you know i go. I might ask you a few things about the Cert III Fitness course your studing sometime if thats ok, as i was thinking of doing it after completing yr 12.

Hunta,

listen to what Shrek is saying then move on to different things. As a youngster, I'd recommend you keep a full diary from now and record everything from moods, strength levels, appetite, and anything else you feel needs to be included in there.

Please don't be confused by the difference in advice you find from people here; if everyone trained by following only one particular way or opinion, the iron sport as we know it today would not have progressed to where we find it today. So difference in opinion is not something that should be viewed as a negative but rather a positive that you can take and build on as you gain in experience.

Thanks for reading.


Fadi

Fadi, I will go and buy a diary tommorow to record everything. I'm looking forward to making progress and gaining knowlege and experience along the the way. Thanks for your help
Joel

 

[Kyle Aaron]

Thanks kyle, i'll stick it out and let you know i go. I might ask you a few things about the Cert III Fitness course your studing sometime if thats ok, as i was thinking of doing it after completing yr 12.

No worries, mate - that's what I did the thread for, because I found it so hard to get any info.

 

[NPR]

Hunta the Bill Starr 5x5 program is great, you will make very good gains in both size and strength.

Dont worry about 5x5 not being enough volume to add size, it will. I have been generally sets only 5 reps or below for the past 19 months, with the occasional 20 rep squat session thrown in. I am more focussed on strength than size yet I have taken myself from 90kg to 110kg (lean) in that time. Size will come from what you eat, strength will come from what you lift.

 

[TrentZor]

from experience I gained size on my major muscles last time i did 5x5.. legs/chest/back.. but seemed to not gain any in the smaller areas such as bi/tri/calves..