Multivitamin Discussion

[Big Mick]

Do you take them??

If yes which ones, if no why not??

Any research or opinions of why and why not.

I currently take Cenovis Men's Multi Performance.

Why?? Just in case, I do miss it often and will go without taking it for a while.

Don't notice any difference if I take it and don't take it, so not sure if there is any real benefits to it.

 

[White_Lie]

Used to, haven't for a long time and can't say I notice any difference.
Usually just have magnesium, no real need for anything else

 

[StrungOut]

Generally only take them when I am starting to feel sick. Does it make a difference? Honeslty no idea, could just be a placebo effect. ON is what I have at the moment

 

[Bazza20]

If you think you are deficient go to the doc and get a blood test and take the vitamin you are deficient in rather than taking a heap of random shit for no reason.

As for the research there was a large observational study done with something like 20+ thousand people and the people taking multi vitamins had a higer death rate. Now this does not mean multi vitamins are causing more people to die but it doesn't look good for the benifits of taking a multi vitamin for no reason.

The other problem is people think vitamins are harmless, they are still a chemical that can have side effects on the body. There was a cancer treatment trial with vitamin e from memory. The trial was pulled because the vitamin e was causing massive increases in cancer.

Also some tableted vitamins don't end up having the same benifical effects that vitamins from food do. Eg eating a diet high in antioxidant vitamins can prevent cancer. Taking tablets high in antioxidant vitamins seems to have zero to negative effects on cancer prevention.

remeber the suppliment industry unlike the drug industry is unregulated. They can sell vitamin and mineral tablets without safety testing. It's only when people start dying do the get looked at for safety.

 

[steveP]

I currently take Cenovis Men's Multi Performance.

Why?? Just in case, I do miss it often and will go without taking it for a while.

Don't notice any difference if I take it and don't take it, so not sure if there is any real benefits to it.

It's that attitude the whole reason you're anti supplements? Doing something for no reason other than "just in case".

Most vitamins are water soluble, so you can't really overdose on them if you don't need them. I think the research is showing that the vitamin gel casing can cause problems though if you take too many.

I only take what I know I'm deficient in or I see a direct benefit from. I don't take multis as if you need them, you've got a shit diet. The basic meat and veg in your diet should cover the minute dosages in the multis.
- Vitamin D - Unless you live near the equator, you're deficient in this. Low Vitamin D can lower testosterone.
- Vitamin C - Good for the immune system, especially if you train regularly and your body is in a state of stress daily. I very rarely get sick since taking this. Maybe a mild runny nose once a year.
- Vitamin B12 (sometimes) - I only really take this when dieting. It helps with gut health/enzymes, which are upset easily when on a low calorie diet or taking a lot of caffeine/stimulants. It definitely helps an upset stomach when needed.
- Magnesium - Good for preventing cramps when training regularly. When I stop taking it, I do get cramps from time to time.
- Fish oil - I know some people say is does nothing and doesn't directly lubricate joins, but I never get joint pain until I stop taking it.

 

[Big Mick]

It's that attitude the whole reason you're anti supplements? Doing something for no reason other than "just in case".

Who ever said I am anti supplement??

I am anti useless. I know you are a supplement fan boy and blindly lap up what is written on the glossy label, but you need to look past that and understand what you are taking and why.

For example a tub of BCAA's can cost up to $100 or more, yet does absolutely nothing, zero, nada as I already have all the BCAA's I need and more from just the food I eat. I have gone through a few kilos of BCAA's in my time and has not made an iota of difference, have tried EEA's no difference again as everyone who eats their fill of protein has more than enough.

You will find that if you actually look into what you are taking that it does nothing as you are already consuming enough of what ever you are taking.

As a matter of fact you will find that once you stop taking all that crap you actually feel better and have a few hundred $$ more to spend on other things.

Marketing will tell you to buy BCAA"S and pre workouts, switching your own brain on and looking at it you will (should?)see how ridiculous it is, with all the protein you eat any additional BCAA'S are probably and most likely doing you more harm that good, by putting additional strain on your organs, processing these out of balance amino acids/chemicals that you already have an excess of needing to be processed and eliminated/excreted from your body.

Easiest way to explain it you have a 20 litre jerry can and you insist on filling it with 30 litres of fuel as it will get you further whilst ignoring the 10 litres getting spilled on the ground.

I never said I am anti supplement, if you have had blood tests and the doctor tells you that you have a shortage of BCCA's or anything else I would suggest may be using a supplement, otherwise, you are just trying to self medicate blindly, putting stuff into your body without rime or reason.

So no I am not anti supplement I am anti taking stuff you very well know you already have an excess of, with your diet for example any BCAA's you take just get pissed out putting extra load on your kidneys and liver or where ever they get processed.

The only reason I consider multivitamin/mineral (which are a supplement by the way) is because I am pretty certain that I do not get every single vitamin/mineral every single day from my diet. But I am not 100% certain these days that I need every single mineral and vitamin every day, and that the occasional dose may be enough.

Hence the discussion thread here.

 

[Big Mick]

If you think you are deficient go to the doc and get a blood test and take the vitamin you are deficient in rather than taking a heap of random shit for no reason.

As for the research there was a large observational study done with something like 20+ thousand people and the people taking multi vitamins had a higer death rate. Now this does not mean multi vitamins are causing more people to die but it doesn't look good for the benifits of taking a multi vitamin for no reason.

The other problem is people think vitamins are harmless, they are still a chemical that can have side effects on the body. There was a cancer treatment trial with vitamin e from memory. The trial was pulled because the vitamin e was causing massive increases in cancer.

Also some tableted vitamins don't end up having the same benifical effects that vitamins from food do. Eg eating a diet high in antioxidant vitamins can prevent cancer. Taking tablets high in antioxidant vitamins seems to have zero to negative effects on cancer prevention.

remeber the suppliment industry unlike the drug industry is unregulated. They can sell vitamin and mineral tablets without safety testing. It's only when people start dying do the get looked at for safety.

I hate to admit it but I tend to agree with pretty much all of this.

I would even suggest to take it a step further and if you are found deficient of a vitamin to include additional food containing that vitamin in your diet, rather than a supplement, I am starting to believe that it's not only the individual vitamin, but the natural combination of enzymes/minerals/vitamins found in a whole food that is important.

And I think this is why people actually feel better and make better gains when they take no supplements but just eat a balanced diet of foods that are beneficial towards their goals rather than use supplements and feed the body on crap, which a lot of 'body builders' tend to do.

The more I think about it and the more I look into it the less reason I can see why you need to take vitamins.

 

[Bazza20]

I never get why people say "I hate to admit it" or " I hate to agree" when they agree with something certain people say. Shows weak character when people take things so personally that they don't want to agree with something just because of who posted it. They can't separate emotion from the statements posted

 

[steveP]

Who ever said I am anti supplement??
I am anti useless. I know you are a supplement fan boy and blindly lap up what is written on the glossy label, but you need to look past that and understand what you are taking and why.

You read my training log, what in there makes me a supplement fan boy? Some protein powder in my yoghurt or a BCAA blend with electrolytes mid workout? If you want to get down to what we really need, you should be drinking nothing but water (no coffee, diet/regular soft drinks, milk, juice, etc). No sauces on your food, no extra salt or pepper on anything. Everything should be steamed or boiled and not cooked with oil.

Why does everything have to always be one extreme or the other? Eat/drink whatever benefits you and helps you get towards your goal. If BCAAs and WPI gets you closer to your protein macro, go for it. If a BCAA flavoured drink is a good alternative to a bottle or sugar filled Gatorade, go with that option. And guess what, you can still eat real food and drink whatever you like. As a rational living creature we have the ability to pick and chose what works for us. A shocking concept, I know.

 

[Bazza20]

Who is adding tommy sauce or pepper as a supplement to improve performance or health. Lol.

We are talking supplements that have claimed health and performance benefits not condiments.


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[Big Mick]

You read my training log, what in there makes me a supplement fan boy?

--- Food ---------------------------------------- Calories ----- Fats ----- Protein ----- Carbs

BREAKFAST (7am)
Omelette - No Carbs (4 egg whites, 1 egg,
20g feta cheese). ------------------------------- 204 ---------- 50% ------ 49% --------- 1%
OR
Yoghurt - No Carbs (170g low fat yoghurt,
30g WPC/WPI protein). --------------------------- 217 ----------- 4% ------ 78% --------- 18%

MID MORNING (11am)
30g WPC/WPI protein. 5g instant coffee. --------- 115 ---------- 7% ------- 84% --------- 9%

LUNCH (2pm)
40g cashews. ------------------------------------ 254 ---------- 73% ------ 11% --------- 17%
OR
40g almonds. ------------------------------------ 238 ---------- 74% ------ 13% --------- 13%
OR
1 Quest bar. ------------------------------------ 211 ---------- 35% ------ 31% --------- 33%

PRE WORKOUT (5pm)
6 rice cakes. ----------------------------------- 180 ---------- 21% ------ 7% ---------- 72%

10g pre workout & BCAAs. ------------------------ 34 ----------- 1% ------- 13% --------- 86%

POST WORKOUT (6:30pm)
30g WPC/WPI protein. 30g dextrose.
5g creatine. ------------------------------------ 255 ---------- 3% ------- 45% --------- 51%

DINNER (8pm)
Kale Shake (100g kale, 50g spinach,
25g celery, 25g Lebanese cucumber,
10g garlic, 10g ginger). ------------------------ 84 ----------- 13% ------ 26% --------- 61%

300g chicken breast. ---------------------------- 495 ---------- 21% ------ 79% --------- 0%
OR
275g rump beef. --------------------------------- 487 ---------- 28% ------ 72% --------- 0%
OR
250g salmon. ------------------------------------ 505 ---------- 59% ------ 41% --------- 0%
OR
Omelette (4 egg whites, 2 eggs,
100g of smoked salmon, 40g feta cheese). -------- 487 ---------- 53% ------ 46% --------- 1%

BEFORE BED (10pm)
10g Metamucil. ---------------------------------- 34 ----------- 0% ------- 0% ---------- 100%


TOTAL (Target based on 72.5kg: f*0.6, p*2.7, c*1.5) ---------- (43.5g) ----- (195.7g) ----- (108.7g)

Average ----------------------------------------- 1649 - 26% (46.8g) - 47% (192.6g) - 27% (109.4g) - Fibre 16.5g

Highlighted some for you, not counting the fat burners and other rubbish you talk about taking.

If you want to get down to what we really need, you should be drinking nothing but water (no coffee, diet/regular soft drinks, milk, juice, etc). No sauces on your food, no extra salt or pepper on anything. Everything should be steamed or boiled and not cooked with oil.

Why?? This is the problem right here.

Why not just eat normal food that helps you achieve your goals, I have been through this before with you. What is wrong with steak and salad vegies, stir fries, BBQ'd meats marinated in various marinades etc etc, the choices are endless. Good food does not have to taste like cardboard.

You eat rubbish like quest bars and rice cakes, seriously who the fuck eats rice cakes and why, would love to know what benefit they have, yet you throw out the best part of the egg, the part that has all the nutrients that will help your muscles to grow the part that tastes the best the part that helps your hormone levels to remain elevated when you make omelettes?? Makes no sense when you actually think about it

 

[Darkoz]

You eat rubbish like quest bars and rice cakes, seriously who the fuck eats rice cakes and why, would love to know what benefit they have, yet you throw out the best part of the egg, the part that has all the nutrients that will help your muscles to grow the part that tastes the best the part that helps your hormone levels to remain elevated when you make omelettes?? Makes no sense when you actually think about it

I concur with this

And I'm glad to admit it

 

[Shrek]

I think the argument is
"Whether they do aything" as opposed to "Whether you chose to or not"?

The question will remain unresolved more than likely.

 

[Darkoz]

whether

 

[Goosey]

Dr Kenneth Cooper (who made aerobics popular) in the mid eighties noticed that marathon runners are mostly not well, and noted a high cancer rate....

there red is a lot more to it but. Digress.

he thought it was due to the immune system being low and oxidization of the cells, the prime cause.

the antioxidant revolution was born 10 years later he again about faced and said the it was in fact due (in extreme cases) to mostly bought on by overuse, (stress) the bodies inability to function as it should, no amount of supplements can fix this.

 

[Shrek]

Are we talking vitamins and minerals or supplements in general now.
Bodybuilding supps (some) do have scientific backing.

 

[steveP]

Why not just eat normal food that helps you achieve your goals, I have been through this before with you. What is wrong with steak and salad vegies, stir fries, BBQ'd meats marinated in various marinades etc etc, the choices are endless. Good food does not have to taste like cardboard.

You eat rubbish like quest bars and rice cakes, seriously who the fuck eats rice cakes and why, would love to know what benefit they have, yet you throw out the best part of the egg, the part that has all the nutrients that will help your muscles to grow the part that tastes the best the part that helps your hormone levels to remain elevated when you make omelettes?? Makes no sense when you actually think about it

I do eat normal food. That's the point you glossed over. Why one extreme or the other? You seem to think people either live off sups or they have to banned. 4/5 of what I consume is regular raw food that I cook.

I use sups where convenient. So your example of a sup junkie is someone who takes some WPI, creatine and carbs? Bit of a newsflash, but they're closer to real food than you think.

I take a protein shake to work as I prefer to sip on it than munching on steak (same macros).
I use egg whites alongside regular eggs as it adds more volume for less calories.
I eat rice cakes before training because I want a light carb source that isn't filling. I actually find it funny that you think rice cakes (a basic, raw food with plenty of fibre) is rubbish, then go on to say eat more real food.

I think this is why you get into so many arguments on here. You have all these strong held opinions based on no research or experience. The foods I eat and the minimal sups are very standard in diets of people who train. You seem like a bit of a beginner not knowing that.

 

[Darkoz]

I'm pretty sure the thread title is Multi Vitamin discussion

 

[Goosey]

Are we talking vitamins and minerals or supplements in general now.
Bodybuilding supps (some) do have scientific backing.

I think we need to go beyond that to understand that no amount of vitamin, mineral, enzyme, stimulant, Protien... "supplement" will do fuck all if these things aren't addressed;

* diet
* not working hard enough in the gym
* sleep
* too much activity
* a tranquil mind

 

[Goosey]

If you think you are deficient go to the doc and get a blood test and take the vitamin you are deficient in rather than taking a heap of random shit for no reason.

As for the research there was a large observational study done with something like 20+ thousand people and the people taking multi vitamins had a higer death rate. Now this does not mean multi vitamins are causing more people to die but it doesn't look good for the benifits of taking a multi vitamin for no reason.

The other problem is people think vitamins are harmless, they are still a chemical that can have side effects on the body. There was a cancer treatment trial with vitamin e from memory. The trial was pulled because the vitamin e was causing massive increases in cancer.

Also some tableted vitamins don't end up having the same benifical effects that vitamins from food do. Eg eating a diet high in antioxidant vitamins can prevent cancer. Taking tablets high in antioxidant vitamins seems to have zero to negative effects on cancer prevention.

remeber the suppliment industry unlike the drug industry is unregulated. They can sell vitamin and mineral tablets without safety testing. It's only when people start dying do the get looked at for safety.

I think I'd like to clarify this by stating that if you need to go to the GP to find out whether you are deficient in a vitamin is a tad silly, you go to a GP WHEN YOU ARE NOT WELL, he will decide whether you are deficient in something, more often than not its not a vitamin, more so a bad diet in general.

fuck, if bodybuilders aren't adding muscle or their tired all the time, there is either something wrong with their regimen or overall diet, usually too many poptarts, sugary drinks and not enough real food.