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Terror in Paris

A biased opinion should carry less weight because it loses its objectivity.

This thread shouldnt be about gun control, it should be about kunce control.
 
onslaught said:
A biased opinion should carry less weight because it loses its objectivity.

This thread shouldnt be about gun control, it should be about kunce control.
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im not really that biased, i dont mind guns..been shooting plenty. I just dont think peoplel should have easy access to firearms for when they flip out. if i go on a killing rampage tonight, will probably need to use a kitchen knife or my cock.
 
WoodyAllen said:
This forum is lacking in the other perspective. We need someone to make a post about how they are not real muslim and that its a peace loving religion. Like all the others that start wars and kill people. Maybe someone can give Fadi a poke and see if he can spare time from his "training" to enlighten us all.
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...and that its a peace loving religion
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Who told you that Islam is a peace loving religion, or put in another way; Islam is a religion of peace? I wouldn't say that. Not because Islam is good or bad, but because the fundamentals of such a statement is totally erroneous. In other words, the premise of such a statement is simply too simplistic and false. Happy to expand if you're genuinely interested. However based on my past experience here, we simply get nowhere fast (if anywhere at all) when this subject matter is discussed.
 
@Fadi

If you don't mind Sir, I'd like to hear your thoughts on Taqiyya and how it relates to moderate adherents of Islam.

I ask because I often hear that Muslims in general are not doing enough to counter the rise of extremists yet the moderates of the faith regularly condemn the acts committed against "innocents."

If the faith allows deception towards the unbeliever, how am I supposed to know if the words of those moderates is in fact trustworthy?

How does Islam define innocent? clearly the definition is vague enough that some would murder civilians and believe this will gain them entry to paradise.


 
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onslaught said:
@Fadi

If you don't mind Sir, I'd like to hear your thoughts on
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onslaught said:
Taqiyya and howit relates to moderate adherents of Islam.

I ask because I often hear that Muslims in general are not doing enough to counterthe rise of extremists yet the moderates of the faith regularly condemn theacts committed against "innocents."

If the faith allows deception towards the unbeliever, how am I supposed to knowif the words of those moderates is in fact trustworthy?

How does Islam define innocent? clearly the definition is vague enough thatsome would murder civilians and believe this will gain them entry to paradise.
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You've raised two points above, which I will address. The first point was in regard to taqiyya, whilst the second was in relation to the killing of innocent civilians.

1. Taqiyya: as a Sunni Muslim, I share the fears you have towards such a ruling. This ruling belongs to the Shia sect and not the Sunni Muslim majority (85%+) which I belong to. I as a Sunni Muslim am hated a whole lot more than you (if you are a non-Muslim). So I fully understand where you're coming from, as I also get lied to through the use of deception.

You ask as to how you would know the deception from the truth and how you would know if the words of those moderates are in fact trustworthy. Well, you don't, but I do. Please note that you've got two things mixed up whilst asking your question: a) you mentioned the moderates, and then you b) added taqiyya to the mix. I take it the moderates you're referring to are of the Sunni majority and not the Shia minority, who ascribe to this deceptive tactic you and I are concerned with called taqiyya.

I am not absolving the extremists who belong to the fold of Sunni Islam here, however extremists or not, Sunnis do not use (and are very much against) taqiyya...just the way you are against it. Sunnis have no need to use it, Shias do (as they are the minority), and have a reason to lie to/deceive the Sunni majority. As a non-Muslim, it would not be something I’d concern myself with. To you, we Muslims (Sunni and Shia) are basically the same, as are the Catholics and Protestants to me as a Muslim.

2. The killing of innocent civilians. Here's what I have to say re this most important of topics:

“Because of that, We decreed upon the Children of Israel that whoever kills a soul unless for a soul or for corruption [done] in the land – it is as if he had slain mankind entirely. And whoever saves one – it is as if he had saved mankind entirely. And our messengers had certainly come to them with clear proofs. Then indeed many of them, [even] after that, throughout the land, were transgressors.” (Quran 5:32)

Or the Hadith (the saying of the prophet) that states "Whoever kills a mu'ahid [non-combatant, innocent non-Muslims] will not smell the scent of paradise …" (Bukhari).

A contextual reading of the Quran or Hadith leads to one conclusion only: there is no justification for the killing of innocent people, whether in Baghdad, Sydney, or New York. Full stop!

The ends do not justify the means in Islamic ethics!

Therefore, associating murder or the killing of innocent people and bystanders to Islam is not only repulsive, but goes against the clear text of Islam.

A contextual reading of Islamic texts prohibits targeting innocent people such as women, children, religious people and others even during times of war. Disbelief, in and of itself, is not an excuse to kill anyone.

The Qur'anic verses, which seem violent, were revealed at a time when the non-Muslims of Mecca attacked Muslims on a regular basis. They are to be interpreted within a legal and historical context, and not in isolation. Obviously not something an extremist would adhere to irrespective of his religion.

Critics of Islam frequently quote out of context the more aggressive passages of the Quran, arguing that these verses could easily inspire and endorse terrorism. Tragically, like the terrorists these critics criticise, they also use the Quran out of context to serve their own agenda.
 
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It baffles me in that in this day and age that there are people who cling to and actually believe (mostly out of ignorance) in the outrageous teachings of any religion.
 
Darkoz said:
It baffles me in that in this day and age that there are people who cling to and actually believe (mostly out of ignorance) in the outrageous teachings of any religion.
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That would be the majority of the population, no?
 
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