First cycle, 400mg Test E

[Achilles]

Hey guys,

Just wondering if I can get some input on my first cycle.

Based on the research I've done, this is what I've come up with. My primary concern (other than gaining size) is ongoing health and returning to normal function, hence the multitude of supps. I also have a few questions on subjects that I'm not quite clear on.

First, my stats:

Age:24 (will be 25 when I start the cycle)
Height: 6ft
Starting Weight: 59kg
Current Weight: 87kg
BF%: ~12%
Years of training: 7 (3 years seriously)
Diet: In check

Prime (8 weeks prior to cycle)

-Cyclical ketogenic diet on a 7 day repeating cycle as follows:
Mon: Moderate carb, maintenance calories, lowerbody compound
Tue: Low carb, 500 calorie deficit, upperbody isolation
Wed: Low carb, 500 calorie deficit, lower body isolation
Thu: Low carb, 500 calorie deficit, rest
Fri: Low carb, 500 calorie deficit, full body glycogen depletion workout
Sat: High carb, 500 calorie surplus, rest
Sun: Moderate carb, 200 calorie surplus, upperbody compound
-BCAA’s 10g pre-workout
-Orange Triad Multivitamin, 3 caps ED
-Pantothenic Acid (B5) 1000mg AM, 1500mg PM ED
-Hawthorn Berry Extract 3 caps ED

Cycle (Weeks 1-12)

-Test E 200mg Mon AM, Thur PM, initiate cycle with 400mg front load (5000mg gear, may as well use it all)
-HCG 250IU Mon AM, Thur PM (Mon/Wed/Fri if testicular atrophy occurs)
-Aromasin 6.25mg EOD, adjust dosage if required
-N-AcetyleCysteine 600mg AM, 600mg PM ED
-Orange Triad Multivitamin, 3 caps ED
-UDCA 250mg AM, 250mg PM ED
-Krill oil 1000mg AM, 1000mg PM ED
-Cod liver oil 1000mg AM, 1000mg PM ED
-Extra Virgin Olive Oil 20ml PM ED
-Milk Thistle 500mg AM, 500mg PM ED
-ZMA PM ED
-Boron 10mg ED
-Vitamin D 1000IU ED
-Garlic 1000mg ED
-Pantothenic Acid (B5) 2500mg AM, 2500mg PM ED
-Hawthorn Berry Extract 3 caps ED

PCT Bridge (Weeks 13-14)

-Creatine 10g ED
-Selegiline 2.5mg EOD
-Aromasin 12.5mg EOD, adjust dosage if required
-N-AcetyleCysteine 600mg AM, 600mg PM ED
-AFTER DAY 4; HCG 500IUS ED for 10 days
-DAA 3g ED
-Orange Triad Multivitamin, 3 caps ED
-UDCA 250mg AM, 250mg PM ED
-Krill oil 1000mg AM, 1000mg PM ED
-Cod liver oil 1000mg AM, 1000mg PM ED
-Extra Virgin Olive Oil 20ml PM ED
-Milk Thistle 500mg AM, 500mg PM ED
-10g BCAAs Pre Workout
-ZMA PM ED
-Boron 10mg ED
-Vitamin D 3000IU ED
-Garlic 1000mg ED
-Pantothenic Acid (B5) 5000mg AM, 5000mg PM ED
-Vitamin C 1000mg AM, 1000mg PWO ED
-Hawthorn Berry Extract 3 caps ED

PCT (Weeks 15-18)

-Aromasin EOD 12.5/6.25/6.25/0
-AFTER DAY 4; Toremifene ED 120/90/60/30
-Selegiline 2.5mg EOD
-N-AcetyleCysteine 600mg AM, 600mg PM ED
-Creatine 10g ED
-DAA 3g ED
-Milk Thistle 500mg AM, 500mg PM ED
-10g BCAAs Pre Workout
-Orange Triad Multivitamin, 3 caps ED
-UDCA 250mg AM, 250mg PM ED
-Krill oil 1000mg AM, 1000mg PM ED
-Cod liver oil 1000mg AM, 1000mg PM ED
-Extra Virgin Olive Oil 20ml PM ED
-ZMA PM ED
-Boron 10mg ED
-Vitamin D 3000IU ED
-Hawthorn Berry Extract 3 caps ED
-Garlic 1000mg ED
-Pantothenic Acid (B5) 5000mg AM, 5000mg PM ED
-Vitamin C 1000mg AM, 1000mg PWO ED

If Needed (Will have on hand)

-Letro
-Nolva

I'll make sure that I have excess HCG and Aromasin in case I need to increase dosage at some point. I'll also be getting bloods done 4 weeks pre-cycle, 6 weeks into the cycle and 4 weeks post PCT so that I can gauge changes accurately and respond accordingly.

A couple of questions that I'd love to get some insight on:

-Seeing as how the vast majority of gear in Aus comes from UGL's, I'm assuming it would be wise to filter before use. Would it also be worth going through a heavy metal detox after the cycle?

-Should I cycle the HCG mid-cycle to prevent desensitization? I've read conflicting theories on this.

-Is bone density something to be concerned about with the use of PCT drugs? This obviously wouldn't be an acute response, but I'm not planning on stopping at one cycle.

-With regards to blood tests, how do I go about finding a doctor experienced in this (AAS use) field? Presumably most GP's would be a little suspicious when viewing your mid-cycle readings. I've also requested bloods before, and faced a barrage of questions. I'm in Brisbane, if that makes a difference.

Any advice is appreciated!

Cheers

 

[0ni]

The way you've laid this out is a fucking mindfuck
Anyway, you'll find that you get better results with 4 weeks of testosterone followed by 4 weeks of nandrolone and doing that twice. Add in maybe 30mg of dbol a day on the deca month and up the dose of testosterone slightly (IE pin every 5th day instead of 7th)

400mg of test straight up will work well for a few weeks then fail to produce further results. Alternating anabolics with androgens counteracts this well. Start with a deca/dbol month and do a high volume of training then really ramp the weights up and shoot for heavy rep PBs on the testosterone month

 

[spartacus]

Oni, having known the drug cycles of some champion bodybuilders, I can safely say you talk bs.

this one, for example, 400mg of test straight up will work well for a few weeks then fail to produce further results'.

Give it a rest, you don't know what you are talking about.

 

[Achilles]

The way you've laid this out is a fucking mindfuck
Anyway, you'll find that you get better results with 4 weeks of testosterone followed by 4 weeks of nandrolone and doing that twice. Add in maybe 30mg of dbol a day on the deca month and up the dose of testosterone slightly (IE pin every 5th day instead of 7th)

400mg of test straight up will work well for a few weeks then fail to produce further results. Alternating anabolics with androgens counteracts this well. Start with a deca/dbol month and do a high volume of training then really ramp the weights up and shoot for heavy rep PBs on the testosterone month

This isn't a mindfuck - you should see the spreadsheet I made!

I was planning on sticking to Test E (or C) as this is my first cycle and I want to gauge how I react to it. I'll definitely look at doing what you suggested later on down the track though.

Any comment on the supporting supps? It's all based on theory, so I'd value the opinion of anyone with experience.

Cheers

 

[Darkoz]

Whether 0ni talks BS or not depends on which site he copies the info from

 

[Big Mick]

I don't know anything about drugs , and do not want to know to be honest, as I have no interest, but it seems to me when ever someone asks a drug question Oni has a definitive answer based on his own research from various sources as I would imagine as it appears to be an interest of his.

Then we regularly get others saying Oni you are talking BS, Oni you have no idea, etc etc, however these people fail to contribute anything of use, or offer alternatives.

Yet Oni is the one that Squats 200kg @70kg and I believe dead lifts three times body weight drug free I presume, yet people seem to rubbish his ideas and advise on training and diet regularly

 

[spartacus]

yes, but bs is bs.

Logic tells you that some of his claims are wrong. for example, people with low testosterone take a similar dose for a long time. Does it stop working for them. I can guarantee anyone on testosterone will keep gaining benefit after the first 2 weeks, as I suspect many people in the know will confirm.

And just because someone is strong does not mean they know all. Some of the biggest dudes I know could not even understand the wording of a MiMs (drug manual), even when I read it out to them.

Oni does not, and should not make claims that he is an expert on drugs.

I mean his past rants suggesting the dose for dianabol was ridiculous. what was it 75mg or 100mg? I mean what a joke. They give 5mg a day for ordinary people, yet he suggests 15 times the dose for a drug that has the potential to cause cancer of the liver.

Oni, about drugs, does not know what he is talking about, although he may get some things right from the abundance of info out there.

 

[Big Mick]

You might be right, I have no idea, but may be offer the OP an alternative thats all or may be give a valid reason why something may be wrong.

Personally I like to know why something is wrong rather than that something is wrong, that way I can understand and learn or make my own mind up about something.

I look at these drug threads al the time and still have no idea, and really it does not matter to me as I will never use them unless it is HRT prescribed a Doctor, but thats just me.

 

[spartacus]

mick, I think I have offered some advice. if doctors recommend 100mg a week for people with low testosterone, think it is safe to say 2-3 times that amount will produce results.

But I am no doctor. I am also now against the use of drugs in sport.

But I can point out bs when I see it.

 

[NJA82]

400mg test per week is a solid first cycle and should see you put on some decent lean mass, as far as your countermeasures you have on hand they are well prepared also. Splitting the dosage up to once per 3.5 days is also spot on IMO, the effective half life of test E is only really 5-7 days tops before it starts to taper off so 3.5 days will keep your levels very consistent.

You have done your homework and it looks good, not to sure about the training and diet though... I would be sticking to a training program to try and move as much weight as possible with the biggest compounds as possible and eating in a surplus of at least 500-1000 calories per day over maintenance to utilize the cycle. Looks to me on paper there you are on some kind of cutting diet... not ideal at all if your trying to pack on solid mass on a cycle.

 

[Achilles]

400mg test per week is a solid first cycle and should see you put on some decent lean mass, as far as your countermeasures you have on hand they are well prepared also. Splitting the dosage up to once per 3.5 days is also spot on IMO, the effective half life of test E is only really 5-7 days tops before it starts to taper off so 3.5 days will keep your levels very consistent.

You have done your homework and it looks good, not to sure about the training and diet though... I would be sticking to a training program to try and move as much weight as possible with the biggest compounds as possible and eating in a surplus of at least 500-1000 calories per day over maintenance to utilize the cycle. Looks to me on paper there you are on some kind of cutting diet... not ideal at all if your trying to pack on solid mass on a cycle.

Thanks, appreciate the response.

As for the diet/training; what I posted was just the preparation phase - I heard that cutting before a cycle primes you to pack on mass during the cycle. The first day of my cycle would be a huge carb-up day and the end of my cutting/prep phase. Not sure if this is just bro-science, but I don't think it could do any harm, right? I'll be eating 600 calories over maintenance (recalculated every week) whilst on, and like you said, training heavy.

 

[BrisVegasGhost]

Keep your diet clean. The problem I have seen a lot is when people are on cycle they tend to over eat. They end up looking like a blimp.
Any reason why you wouldn't run 500mg pw? Which is normally standard for a first cycle.

 

[Big Mick]

Oni, having known the drug cycles of some champion bodybuilders, I can safely say you talk bs.

this one, for example, 400mg of test straight up will work well for a few weeks then fail to produce further results'.

Give it a rest, you don't know what you are talking about.

Can not see any advice what so ever here??

mick, I think I have offered some advice. if doctors recommend 100mg a week for people with low testosterone, think it is safe to say 2-3 times that amount will produce results.

But I am no doctor. I am also now against the use of drugs in sport.

But I can point out bs when I see it.

Yes you offered some advice AFTER it was pointed out to you, and even then the advice does not really relate to the OP's question.

 

[0ni]

This isn't a mindfuck - you should see the spreadsheet I made!

I was planning on sticking to Test E (or C) as this is my first cycle and I want to gauge how I react to it. I'll definitely look at doing what you suggested later on down the track though.

Any comment on the supporting supps? It's all based on theory, so I'd value the opinion of anyone with experience.

Cheers

Well there are so many supporting supplements is hard to tell how they will all react when you throw them all in together. Deca is pretty mild, moreso than test so you should be fine with it. 400mg of test doesnt get the results people want which is why so many people run this and make hardly any progress. Just take a look at the majority of logs and youll see peoples gains will slow around the 6 week mark from estrogens and cortisols getting kicked up.

Spartacus, this guy isnt a pro, who gives a fuck what a pros cycle looks like

 

[0ni]

yes, but bs is bs.

Logic tells you that some of his claims are wrong. for example, people with low testosterone take a similar dose for a long time. Does it stop working for them. I can guarantee anyone on testosterone will keep gaining benefit after the first 2 weeks, as I suspect many people in the know will confirm.

And just because someone is strong does not mean they know all. Some of the biggest dudes I know could not even understand the wording of a MiMs (drug manual), even when I read it out to them.

Oni does not, and should not make claims that he is an expert on drugs.

I mean his past rants suggesting the dose for dianabol was ridiculous. what was it 75mg or 100mg? I mean what a joke. They give 5mg a day for ordinary people, yet he suggests 15 times the dose for a drug that has the potential to cause cancer of the liver.

Oni, about drugs, does not know what he is talking about, although he may get some things right from the abundance of info out there.

Uh, actually guys on TRT do have their doses kicked up and then get prescribed anti corticols or an and estrogen. Youre comparing normal levels with extra levels also. You shove 500mg a week in you, your body WILL kick up estrogen and cortisone to balance out PTOR. Its a fact.

My usual recommendation for dbol is 30mg of legit dbol. Most dbol is underdosed and i wouldnt be shocked at all if someone took 75mg of UGL dbol

 

[spartacus]

ok mick, here is the advice, don't take drugs period.

I suppose if he wants to listen to Oni, who knows jackshit about safe cycles, then so be it.

 

[0ni]

Im looking at llwellens anabolics 10th edition now and what spartacus is saying is bs is in the first few chapters lol

 

[spartacus]

but Oni you said testosterone does not work after 2 weeks, not true.

 

[0ni]

Clint Darden is full of such bullshit lol
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Ol9okpK_cYk

 

[0ni]

but Oni you said testosterone does not work after 2 weeks, not true.

No i didnt