My 2200 cal bulking diet using Max's guidelines

[MikeW]

Guys,

Just spotted Pistachio's thread so thought I'd throw my current diet plan up there too for critique. I used Max's maintenance plus 15% guideline for calculating my target cals and also his 2.5g/kg for proteins and 0.85g/kg fats minimum too.

Here's how I calculated my target cals:

Didn't get it spot on, ended up with slightly more proteins and fats than this but at the expense of carbs as the filler. Let me know if I'm on the right track.

I've also been reading LeanGains website and he proposes daily fasting pre-workout but I'm a 9-5 employee who does his workouts at 5:30pm in the evening so that doesn't work for me.

Hopefully just looking after the macros at the right balance and consistency in workout should do it. I also take a daily multi-vitamin and used to take 4 fish oil tabs and 4 Vit-C. Would welcome some guidance around the supps for minerals and vitamins to complement the above macro diet too.

Thanks heaps in advance.

Cheers,
Mike

 

[pistachio]

copycat

just two things:

1) where did you get that starting BMR calculation from?
2) read my thread about tuna, I think you'll find you are overestimating the protein and underestimating the fat. my tin contains 39g protein, 30g fat (approx), and it has a relatively higher % of protein than most other tins (81%). Olive oil is about the same as most (15%). Might just want to check that, as it can throw the calories out quite a bit!

 

[MikeW]

where did you get that starting BMR calculation from?

Here mate:

T NATION | Carb Cycling Codex

read my thread about tuna, I think you'll find you are overestimating the protein and underestimating the fat.

Ok, will do. I'm pretty sure I just read it off the side of the tin, but I haven't got any with me here at work today so will have to recheck.

Cheers,
Mike

 

[pistachio]

Here mate:

T NATION | Carb Cycling Codex



Ok, will do. I'm pretty sure I just read it off the side of the tin, but I haven't got any with me here at work today so will have to recheck.

Cheers,
Mike

If you are draining it, it should be ok. It is just where you eat everything in the tin that it can be a bit misleading. That protein content still seems too high for a 185g tin tho.

 

[MaxBrenner]

Wow between you and big P, I've seen this many graphs and numbers since, well when I was on PubMed an hour ago. (sorry about the nerd joke)

Mate it all looks well, again as mentioned with P-dogg, just use that as your starting point and check your progress after 2-3 weeks following that intake and then adjust it if need be. That is the key, the numbers are simply a starting point to get you facing in the right direction.

In regards to fish oil and fish consumption, you will get 11mg of EPA and 50mg of DHA from a piece of fish as compared to 120mg EPA in a 1000mg fish oil tablet. Optimum levels of EPA are around 1.8 GRAMS, so do the math on that and maybe increase your fish oil intake

Take into account what pistachio said about the tin tuna etc.

If you want to follow an IF protocol (which by no means is necessary) you could simply take your 9pm shake and have it with your 6pm dinner, that way you will have a longer 'fasting' period.You could also consume you last 2 meals that are normally after training at sometime before you train That would give you an 8 hour feeding period with the 16 hour fast that Leangain's suggests. But for the most part don't worry about it, I and the other just like it cause we can stuff our face and it feels good and appetite is better controlled

Also, you need to pay me a royalty on using my suggestions

Good luck with it mate.

 

[pistachio]

Here mate:

T NATION | Carb Cycling Codex

According to that, my maintenance calories is up around 3100-3200.

And I've always considered myself to have a pretty high metabolism too.

Hmm, I hope 3200 is enough for me for my bulk!

 

[pistachio]

Haha, I'm a maths man MB, of course there is going to be graphs and spreadsheets

In regards to fish oil and fish consumption, you will get 11mg of EPA and 50mg of DHA from a piece of fish as compared to 120mg EPA in a 1000mg fish oil tablet. Optimum levels of EPA are around 1.8 GRAMS, so do the math on that and maybe increase your fish oil intake

How many do you do a day out of interest?

 

[The Hulk]

I've also been reading LeanGains website and he proposes daily fasting pre-workout but I'm a 9-5 employee who does his workouts at 5:30pm in the evening so that doesn't work for me.

Has this changed recently, because he didn't used to say to fast Pre-workout.
It was more common to get 1 meal in pre-workout, which would work well with your schedule.
You could have your first meal at lunch time, train, then have a post work meal or 2 within 8 hours of your first meal.

 

[MikeW]

If you are draining it, it should be ok. It is just where you eat everything in the tin that it can be a bit misleading. That protein content still seems too high for a 185g tin tho.

Cool!

If I drop it to 39g in my plan then my cals drop to spot on and my proteins are still above target.

I'll confirm it tomorrow anyway, but seems about right.

Has this changed recently, because he didn't used to say to fast Pre-workout.
It was more common to get 1 meal in pre-workout, which would work well with your schedule.
You could have your first meal at lunch time, train, then have a post work meal or 2 within 8 hours of your first meal.

Stuff I just read said only have some Amino Acids pre-workout if possible but he did have other plans based on when you workout. My afternoon workout allowed two meals prior...

Cheers,
Mike

 

[MaxBrenner]

Ahh I should have guessed, expecting more spreadsheets this week

I have 10 x 1000mg fish oils per day.

There is no such thing as a fast or slow metabolism. Someones calorie requirements are dependent on a number of things - age, LBM, activity level & type, gender, NEAT, TEF, hormonal function etc etc etc

All BMR calcualtors will give different calorie intakes. They are ESTIMATE values and should not be taken as 100% nor gospel. Adjust as necessary depending on results.

Leangains has a number of different fasting protocols depending on when you train and you daily schedule. I training in the middle of my fast. The key point being the fasting period, not so much the rest which is a little micromanagement. Don't focus on the amino acid pre-workout thing unless you are training in the middle of the fasting period or at the end before feeding period starts. Just have some creatine and beta alanine (and caffeine if need be) pre-workout for the win

 

[Jonno_aus]

Ahh I should have guessed, expecting more spreadsheets this week

I have 10 x 1000mg fish oils per day.

There is no such thing as a fast or slow metabolism. Someones calorie requirements are dependent on a number of things - age, LBM, activity level & type, gender, NEAT, TEF, hormonal function etc etc etc

All BMR calcualtors will give different calorie intakes. They are ESTIMATE values and should not be taken as 100% nor gospel. Adjust as necessary depending on results.

Leangains has a number of different fasting protocols depending on when you train and you daily schedule. I training in the middle of my fast. The key point being the fasting period, not so much the rest which is a little micromanagement. Don't focus on the amino acid pre-workout thing unless you are training in the middle of the fasting period or at the end before feeding period starts. Just have some creatine and beta alanine (and caffeine if need be) pre-workout for the win

True. I'd do a whole body routine 3 times per week Bill Starr style - squatting 3x, power cleans, good mornings (100kg x 8-10), Presses etc. Do 20 mins on the Concept 2 Rower 'till I felt like spewing, Then maybe do some sprints outside. On off days I'd do hill sprints. Play 1-2 hours of touch footy during week as well.

And found anything over 2200-2400 cals would just make me fat even eating clean. I even struggled to eat that much anyway.

But my sister-in-law 5 + years older would eat well and truly more then I would but would remain quite thin with no exercise. But she's just wired to run high speed I think. Constantly hungry. I can get by on 1400 cals a day quite easy even with exercising.


Whatever works for you aye.

 

[MaxBrenner]

Did you expect not to gain weight, when eating in a calorie surplus, by eating clean?

FYI, Food type or name does not determine body composition. Calorie and macronutirent intake does

Also typically people who don't track or haven't calcualted their calorie intake before, their actual calorie intake is around 40-50% different to what is though Overweight people tend to under-estimate their calorie intake and over-estimate their activity level. The opposite applies for underweight people.

 

[walt]

2200 calories seems a bit little for a 70kg man?

 

[pistachio]

Also typically people who don't track or haven't calcualted their calorie intake before, their actual calorie intake is around 40-50% different to what is though Overweight people tend to under-estimate their calorie intake and over-estimate their activity level. The opposite applies for underweight people.

So true, especially with overweight people.

 

[MaxBrenner]

I don't know if anyone saw it, but a few weeks a go on channel 7 (I think) there was a show on and it did that exact experiment with obese individuals. Their self-estimated calorie intake was on average 50% less than the actual intake. Other studies had also confirmed that.

 

[pistachio]

It really comes as no surprise. People just have no clue when it comes to food. Especially calorie density. They'll snack on muesli bars and fruity bars and shit like that all day and wonder why they are putting on weight. Or drink a litre or two of fruit juice everyday. It's not necessarily that they are eating bad food, just that the food they are eating is so calorie dense.

Which leads to the whole 'i've tried everything', the catchcry of obese people everywhere.

 

[jzpowahz]

Since we're digressing a bit.

I just got asked where I get my protein powder from by a lady at work. I said "bulk nutrients". She says "Oh, so that will bulk you up then?"

sigh

I did explain it to her though.

 

[MaxBrenner]

Yes you got it in one Pistachio!

I deal with that all the time and it can be extremely frustrating trying to educate those people.

 

[MaxBrenner]

Since we're digressing a bit.

I just got asked where I get my protein powder from by a lady at work. I said "bulk nutrients". She says "Oh, so that will bulk you up then?"

sigh

I did explain it to her though.

Bahahaha, just like the size of the buckets 'Oh I don't want a big bucket like that, I don't want to get big'.....

 

[The Hulk]

2200 calories seems a bit little for a 70kg man?

I think 2200 looks ok for a slow bulk at 70kg.
Mike is not overly active during the day.
I'm a relatively lean 82.5kg and have been maintaining on around 2200 calories for months now, lightly active during the day.

Anyway, easy enough to adjust after a few weeks if desired results aren't happening.