Herniated Disc

[JimJam]

a week ago I popped my back while doing squats,
was on light weight warming up, 90kgs, pretty sure I got lazy and didnt have my mid section tight/sloppy form

been to the physio and I've got a Herniated Disc.

anyways my question is has anyone had similar injuries and were you able to get back into squats deadlifts etc.

done the usual searches on bb and t-nation with the majority of people saying to not squat or deadlift again.

My Physio said I'll be able to squat again but will be at risk of injuring my back again.

should I get a belt?
give up squats/deads?

Friday I start a rehab program, which is mainly core strengthening exercises, bridges etc.

 

[vegas]

i have a prolapsed disc in my neck and bulging disc in my lumbar spine, still squat and dead no prob

 

[Morgan]

Good advice Vegas... Lol

Don't listen to some random bloke on the net with a "she'll be right mate" attitude. I battled through the pain in my lower back and made mine worse, haven't squatted in 6 months now, just starting to come good now, don't mess around with your back.

 

[vegas]

Good advice Vegas... Lol

Don't listen to some random bloke on the net with a "she'll be right mate" attitude. I battled through the pain in my lower back and made mine worse, haven't squatted in 6 months now, just starting to come good now, don't mess around with your back.

Please tell me where I gave advice....

 

[JimJam]

I battled through the pain in my lower back and made mine worse, haven't squatted in 6 months now, just starting to come good now, don't mess around with your back.

thanks for your imput Morgan and Vegas

I don't plan on rushing anything
am listening and asking heaps of questions with my physio.
just chasing first hand experience from lifters

what did you do to your back Morgan?

any more info Vegas like how long it took you to get back to squatting etc, have your injuries given you any recurring problems?

 

[0ni]

The reverse hyper machine is good for rehabbing your back. Louie Simmons and Dave Tate have both stated that you can use the reverse hyper to 'un-herniate' your back and fix a lot of other problems there. But I've never had a hernia or seen anyone with one so I have no direct experience of whether it works or not, but it IS an exercise you can do to train your posterior chain with a herniated disk even if it fails to fix it. If the reverse hyper fails to fix it, surgery may be the only option but I am unsure of that and fairly certain that the RH will fix any problems

Do it instead of your normal squat / deadlift sets for similar reps. I wouldn't recommend anything that loads the spine or the hips though, which is most exercises. As a general rule of thumb, if it hurts, don't do it. You may not be able to do chins or pressing either, or abs, or most exercises

 

[vegas]

a more info Vegas like how long it took you to get back to squatting etc, have your injuries given you any recurring problems?

I honestly don't know how mine originally happened and I wasn't training when I found out.

When I did start back training I found that if my form was slightly out it would aggravate it and I'd walk like I had a pole up my arse for 3-5 days. If I feel a twinge I ice it as soon as I finish training and that makes a huge difference, it only hurts for a day or two as opposed 3-5.

I've found that since I've learnt to squat and deadlift properly and got some decent strength my back feels slot better and hasn't played up for a long time.

Obviously though, this only applies to me and my condition and everyone is different and there are different degrees of herniation. Yours may be worse or not as bad as mine.

All the best mate, hope it's not too bad

 

[JimJam]

thanks Oni,

some interesting info there, have you got a link to what Simmons and Tate have said?
might google when I get home.


thanks Vegas,
yeah don't think mine is extreme just want to make sure i don't make it worse and recover as much as is possible

all I hear from most people I talk to is horror stories,

But it seems to be a common back injury with it happening from something as simple and bending down to pickup a pen.

 

[0ni]

Ok yeah, you might also want to look at this link as well. It provides some decent info on conditioning and I see no reason why you can't use these methods to keep your strength and increase GPP while you're injured:

T NATION | 5 Drills That Are Better Than the Prowler

I couldn't find the articles by Dave Tate (I think it's in his Gym Talk or Under the Bar books though) but there is a Q & A by Joe Defranco which talks about recovering from and training through a hernia:

DeFranco's Training - Ask Joe 01.16.04

 

[Bazza20]

See a Physio or specialist. Fair chance you will be fine and it will fix itself but you want to see someone.

See if you can find stuff on the net written by Dr Stuart McGill. He is the top expert on backs. I got one of his books when I stuffed my back and followed what it said and fixed it. I remember it saying something like 50% of people by 30 have a herniated disk, most without any pain at all. So it is possible to fix it.

Also written in the book is something about the reverse hyper and how it can actually aggravate some back injuries.

 

[Morgan]

Please tell me where I gave advice....

OK then, poor choice of words on my part, I'll try again, shit post in general, shit attitude.

Guys with fucked back asks "has anyone had similar injuries and were you able to get back into squats deadlifts etc."

You respond with "My back is fucked, but i lift anyways" You should be telling him "Go get it checked out before hitting those lifts again to be safe, everyone's circumstances are different, we probably have totally different issues, to be safe, don't do those lifts until you are given the all clear by a medical professional, not some random guy on the internet with no credentials/training"

what did you do to your back Morgan?

My lower back gradually got stiff, then my form started to stuffer, I lost all mobility, I couldn't hit depth in my squats properly while maintaining form, strength went in the toilet, my core/lower back felt very weak etc.

Turns out I had hip flexors/quads/hammies like concrete and couldn't move, this caused forward tilt in my hips which put heaps of pressure on my lower back, that combined with sitting in the work car a lot everything locked up for one big horrible ugly mess.

I eventually dropped deads/squats, then had to stop hack squats, then I couldn't even leg press because loading my hips made my back flare up. In the end, I couldn't even sit through a movie at the cinemas because it sitting became so uncomfortable.

Treatment started in January this year, been getting massages, heaps of specific exercises to realign the hips, and plenty of twice daily stretching.

Things are just starting to feel normal at last, ROM has greatly improved, stiffness is 90% gone, core strength is much improved as is flexibility.

Did deadlifts for the first time the other day since December and apart from me feeling week everything seemed promising, no stiffness, no pain the next day, I worked up to 140kgx3, I'm gonna give it another few moths until everything feels 100% then slowly get back into the squats/deads full on.

Good luck with your back.

 

[vegas]

a week ago I popped my back while doing squats,
was on light weight warming up, 90kgs, pretty sure I got lazy and didnt have my mid section tight/sloppy form

been to the physio and I've got a Herniated Disc.

anyways my question is has anyone had similar injuries and were you able to get back into squats deadlifts etc.

did you read any of this Morgan?

you are kidding yourself. He had already said he'd been and seen the Physio and he had been diagnosed with the herniated disc, and he asked if anyone else had a similar issue and how it affected squats and deadlifts. I answered that.

 

[Morgan]

I said "get it checked out by a medical professional" that's a spinal doctor, or at the very least an excellent osteopath, a physio isn't in the same league.

My female friend strained her back while throwing up with morning sickness, apparently she had a herniated/bulging disk according to her physio, funny, her back is 100% Again 7 days later... Physio's ain't worth shit in most cases.

 

[JimJam]

See a Physio or specialist. Fair chance you will be fine and it will fix itself but you want to see someone.

See if you can find stuff on the net written by Dr Stuart McGill. He is the top expert on backs. I got one of his books when I stuffed my back and followed what it said and fixed it. I remember it saying something like 50% of people by 30 have a herniated disk, most without any pain at all. So it is possible to fix it.

Also written in the book is something about the reverse hyper and how it can actually aggravate some back injuries.

cheers for the info Bazza,
currently seeing a Physio and Im taking all his advice,
wanted a lifters perspective experiences etc.

any more info on your back injury/repair

 

[0ni]

Treat Your Own Back by Robin Mckenzie is a pretty decent book to read I got it when I started having back pain a few years ago (before I lifted). The doctor was saying that I'd need invasive surgery to see what was causing it and I was on over a gram of morphine a day to cope with the pain. I went to see an ART specialist and in 30 minutes I was pain free lol. He recommended that book afterwards to prevent any pain from happening again and I've been ok ever since

 

[vegas]

I said "get it checked out by a medical professional" that's a spinal doctor, or at the very least an excellent osteopath, a physio isn't in the same league.

My female friend strained her back while throwing up with morning sickness, apparently she had a herniated/bulging disk according to her physio, funny, her back is 100% Again 7 days later... Physio's ain't worth shit in most cases.

A "medical professional" covers far too many occupations, it would even include a physio.
In my experience osteos have had zero effect, and any Physio that diagnoses a herniated discs without scans isnt worth a pinch of salt either.

As for your "spinal doctor" my neck is so bad that the neurosurgeon I seen wanted to operate "but not until you're about 50"- I was 23 at the time. Chiro fixed it in two sessions, and that was 5 years ago.

 

[Bazza20]

A "medical professional" covers far too many occupations, it would even include a physio.
In my experience osteos have had zero effect, and any Physio that diagnoses a herniated discs without scans isnt worth a pinch of salt either.

As for your "spinal doctor" my neck is so bad that the neurosurgeon I seen wanted to operate "but not until you're about 50"- I was 23 at the time. Chiro fixed it in two sessions, and that was 5 years ago.

While I agree some physios and osteos are useless. You can't really bag them and then claim Chiros, which are the biggest joke of the lot, are any better.

 

[Bazza20]

cheers for the info Bazza,
currently seeing a Physio and Im taking all his advice,
wanted a lifters perspective experiences etc.

any more info on your back injury/repair

Basically hurt my back picking something up. Had problems for well over a year. Spend over a $1000 at a Chiro but it did nothing. Did as much reading as I could and found that everyone seemed to be referencing Dr Stuart McGill, i don't think anyone has done more research on back pain.

Found one of his books, lower back disorders, read it from cover to cover. It had a section on how to diagnose certain back issues and what exercises to fix them.

I found back raises and high rep light deadlifts improved my back pain out of sight. Just note though different back problems will respond to different exercises.

As much as I hate T-Nation occasionally they do have some good info on there. Here is an interview with him, it might have some good info for you
http://www.t-nation.com/free_online...raining_performance_interviews/back_to_mcgill

 

[dave]

Back issues and a weak core, tight hips (especially tighter in relation to your LB) and not lifting within your levels are common. Make sure you keep working on the issues that cause the herniation rather than just correcting the end problem and thinking you can then get right back into it. If you do nt address the underlying causes you will probably not squat again. Also watch for butt wink (loss of lumber spine curve) you should only squat to just before this occurs and work towards lowering you level in time.

 

[Bazza20]

Another thing don't do sit ups in the hope they will help your back. They are the best way to hurt a stuffed back more or stuff up a good back.