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Canning the 6 meals, 'clean' eating, the Post Workout Anabolic Window and GI myths

0ni said:
The main problem with McDonalds and Hungry Jacks is the sub-par meal portions. Is it called Hungry Jack's because you're left hungry afterwards?
Give me a break!

Also I'd like to chip in on this about the GI of foods. You should be paying attention to the glycemic LOAD of food, which is the total insulin response from the food. For example, look at watermelon, with a GI of 70 it looks pretty bad for you, but it contains so little sugar, a portion has a GL of 7, which is tiny. Same goes for white bread, which has a smaller GL than an apple.

Taking fish oil with a high GL meal has also shown to decrease the insulin response
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HAHAHA @ Hungry Jack's! That was gold mate.
 
How about everyone just eat healthy (with plenty of protein for ya guns) with the occasional cheat...how hard is that really....90% of ppl on this forum are only training to train so just eat healthy, cheat, spread ya meals out how you like and how you think will give you the best results.

Its not rocket science - everyone knows my stand on eating 6-10 meals a day every 1-3 hours, low carb, high fat, high protein...that works for me...not everyone...these convos (as I know) are a never ending thing...no1 is right or wrong.
 
Joel said:
How about everyone just eat healthy (with plenty of protein for ya guns) with the occasional cheat...how hard is that really....90% of ppl on this forum are only training to train so just eat healthy, cheat, spread ya meals out how you like and how you think will give you the best results.

Its not rocket science - everyone knows my stand on eating 6-10 meals a day every 1-3 hours, low carb, high fat, high protein...that works for me...not everyone...these convos (as I know) are a never ending thing...no1 is right or wrong.
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Of course, I totally agree with you that it is up to the individual on how the set their meals up. That was never in question and it certainly is not rocket science. But the REASONING'S (boosting your metabolism and keeping your protein up to not go catabolic) that are behind why you eat 6-10 times are day are made out to be rocket science and are not the reason why it 'works for you'. Mate I used to think and do the exact same thing as you, but until you have an open mind you will never fully understand the basics behind it all. :)
 
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gifttolift: check out the movie "fat head" if you haven't. Lots of interesting stuff in it. It's a rebuttal against supersize me sort of.
 
Been doing more research into it. I will post the studies that etc, but the basics are -

On nitrogen retention, a LOWER (3) meal frequency had equal if not a HIGHER nitrogen retention rate than HIGHER (6) meal frequency. Meaning NUTRIENT absorption was equally as good if not better for the LOWER meal frequency.

An interesting note, that a HIGHER meal frequency showed a possible DECREASE in protein synthesis and a possible 'resistance' in protein synthesis to a continued influx of AA. More AA was seen to be oxidized in the liver.

The only time a HIGHER meal frequency had superior results, was when participants in the studies where given BELOW the RDI of Protein and in a calorie deficit.

Just some food for thought. i will posts the studies when I've got more time :)
 
Any studies done on powerlifters at all? Especially the one on higher meal frequency and decreased protein synthesis.
 
Christian said:
Any studies done on powerlifters at all? Especially the one on higher meal frequency and decreased protein synthesis.
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Summary of the study Hansen Oyvind et. Al. The effect of meal frequency on body composition during 12 weeks of strength training –

33 Men and 15 Women with at least 1 year of previous resistance training were placed on either a 3 or 6 meal per day diet. The 3 and 6 meal groups were instructed to eat the SAME amount of calories, providing roughly a 300 calories per day SURPLUS with a PROTEIN intake of 1.7g/kg.

Both groups performed the SAME training program over 12 weeks and changes in body composition and body weigh were measured.

Results – the 3 MEAL per day group gained MORE WEIGHT and MORE LEAN BODY MASS.

A study by Capaldo, B et. Al. on Splanchnic leg substrate exchange after ingestion of a natural mixed meal in humans found that a meal containing 75 grams of Carbohydrates, 17 grams of Fat and 27 grams of Protein (meal total 561 calories) was still releasing amino acids, glucose and fatty acids into the bloodstream at the competition of the study 5 HOURS LATER.

Overall in all the studies examined it appears that eating TOO FREQUENTLY could potentially be DETRIMENTAL to the goal of gaining muscle mass in that the muscle tissue becomes INSENSITIVE TO FURTHER STIMULATION by amino acids, INCREASING protein oxidation in the liver.

Studies examined for nitrogen retention –

Speechly DP et. Al. Acute appetite reduction associated with an increase of frequency of eating in obese males.

Swindells YE, The metabolic response of young women to changes in the frequency of meals.

Young CM, Frequency of feeding, weight reduction and body composition.

Young CM, Frequency of feeding, weight reduction and nutrient ultization.

Bohe J et. Al. Latency and duration of stimulation of human muscle protein synthesis during continuous infusion of amino acids.

Phillips SM et. al. A critical examination of dietary protein requirements, benefits, and excesses in athletes.
 
Eating many meals a day also decreases the amount of HCl acid in your stomach which will lead to poor absorption of nutrients. Not sure if you wrote about that.

And no I don't have the source, I'm not a librarian
 
I need to eat more then 3 meals or I starve to death... I can't eat what I. Wed to eat In 3 meals it's too much food.
I do what works for me.
 
Christian said:
I need to eat more then 3 meals or I starve to death... I can't eat what I. Wed to eat In 3 meals it's too much food.
I do what works for me.
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That is due the Ghrelin Hormone -

Ghrelin also stimulates hunger (the only hormone so far found to do so) and appears to be a key hormone in initiating the hunger that goes along with meals; ghrelin drops prior to hunger and injection of ghrelin stimulates hunger specifically.
Even more interestingly, there is research suggesting that ghrelin levels become entrained to normal meal times.
So if you normally eat at 3pm (or whatever), you’ll likely find yourself becoming hungry at 3pm; this appears to occur from changes in ghrelin. I suspect this explains why people often have problems changing meal frequency, at least until ghrelin re-entrains itself to the new frequency.
That is, moving from a higher to lower frequency of meals is often accompanied by hunger at the previously ‘normal’ meal times. Moving from lower to higher is often accompanied by a lack of hunger until the body adjusts to the new frequency. I haven’t seen any work examining how long this takes but empirically it seems like it’s a couple of weeks or so.
Increased ghrelin also negatively impacts on pretty much all aspects of metabolism, slowing metabolism and increasing fat storage, at least it does this in rats with daily infusion.

This is all I'm saying AS IT IS ALL PERSONAL as long as you understand the reasoning behind why it is ACTUALLY WORKING -

If eating more frequently makes it easier to control/reduce calories, it will help you to lose weight/fat. BUT YOU DON'T HAVE TOO.
If eating more frequently makes it harder to control/reduce calories, or makes you eat more, you will gain weight. BUT YOU DON'T HAVE TOO.
If eating less frequently makes it harder for you to control/reduce calories (because you get hungry and binge), it will hurt your efforts to lose weight/fat. BUT YOU DON'T HAVE TOO.
If eating less frequently makes it easier for you to control/reduce calories (for any number of reasons), then that will help your efforts to lose weight/fat. BUT YOU DON'T HAVE TOO.
 
MaxBrenner said:
Riddle me this - 1 gram of carbohydrate is 1 gram of 'Sugar' = 4 calories as is 1 gram of 'starch' = 4 calories. How is the TEF be any different?
QUOTE]

Well, I assume because the simple carb does not require as much energy from the body - as ditinct from the ingested carb. Each gram of ingested carb contains 4 calories, but the body also contributes energy to the process and I'm proposing that it is more for complex carbs. I know that it takes longer for complex carbs to be digested, and I assume that this means it requires energy from the body to do it. Glucose takes less time and less energy because it does not need to be broken down. Whether this energy comes from endogonous stores (from the body) or from the 4 calories per gram of the ingested carb, there will be less net energy in the body.

Whether this energy expenditure is of any significance, I don't know.

Note; when energy is expended during digestion heat is released - TEF
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TheGiftToLift said:
MaxBrenner said:
Riddle me this - 1 gram of carbohydrate is 1 gram of 'Sugar' = 4 calories as is 1 gram of 'starch' = 4 calories. How is the TEF be any different?
QUOTE]

Well, I assume because the simple carb does not require as much energy from the body - as ditinct from the ingested carb. Each gram of ingested carb contains 4 calories, but the body also contributes energy to the process and I'm proposing that it is more for complex carbs. I know that it takes longer for complex carbs to be digested, and I assume that this means it requires energy from the body to do it. Glucose takes less time and less energy because it does not need to be broken down. Whether this energy comes from endogonous stores (from the body) or from the 4 calories per gram of the ingested carb, there will be less net energy in the body.

Whether this energy expenditure is of any significance, I don't know.

Note; when energy is expended during digestion heat is released - TEF
Click to expand...

I certainly get and understand what you are putting across, but there is nothing stating that in certain terms about the 'extra' energy in digestion, particularly in a MIXED MEAL or in a FED STATE. All the studies I posted and referenced state that fact. If it was the fact, the TEF would be different, correct? But it is not what has been found.

Things that are done on in fasted state and with a single nutrient are not rellevent to 99% of the typical populations, especially the 'bodybuilding' or athletic worlds. :)
Click to expand...
 
I certainly get and understand what you are putting across, but there is nothing stating that in certain terms about the 'extra' energy in digestion, particularly in a MIXED MEAL or in a FED STATE. All the studies I posted and referenced state that fact. If it was the fact, the TEF would be different, correct? But it is not what has been found.

Look at it like this, 'sugar' will have a HIGHER and SHORTER effect ,yet a 'starch' will have a LOWER and LONGER effect. Yet at the end the TEF is still the same.

Things that are done on in fasted state and with a single nutrient are not rellevent to 99% of the typical populations, especially in the 'bodybuilding' or athletic worlds.
 
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Ive just read this whole thread from beginning to end, thanks MB for all the info and thanks to everyone who asked questions and raised "arguments" so I don't have to.

I don't resist these findings at all as I generally have breakfast, lunch and tea with morning afternoon and evening snacks just because that's when I get hungry rather from discipline. And if I skip my morning snack (usually and apple or muesili bar) I just have it for lunch or eat a bigger lunch etc.

It's good to know I don't have to worry too much about nutrient /meal timing etc.

I think I will start having my WPI shake before my workout though rather than afterwards as I usually have dinner straight ater gym (and not because my muscles won't grow if i don't get protein immediately in the post WO window).
 
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