Coming out of a Rotator cuff injury..

[Bonza]

I was an idiot last year and after my bike accident avoided physio etc. Then quit the gym alltogether and a dirty lifestyle has rendered me pretty wasted.

I managed to save up money for a decent physio program and my shoulder is mostly rehabbed (Still the occasional pinch in the humerus/scapula region) and neck/shoulder gets a bit pumped from some activities.

What are the exercises to avoid? I know for a fact I cant do an upright row anymore and dips had become a nono too. For this reason I dont think a 5x5 would be very suitable (military press requirement).

Just want a heads up on what is best avoided, what needs to be done carefully (say incline press for eg) and other do's and dont's. At this stage really I need to start gaining stenght and then adding muscle along the way.

Thanks in advance!

 

[GoPies]

I look forward to reading the responses in this thread as I have had issues with my rotator cuff and also had shoulder surgery a few years back on my AC joint.

 

[DKD]

I stuffed up my rotator cuff a couple months after I began weight training. I got pretty bad impingement for a while, so I laid off any shoulder exercises for about 6 weeks or so.

I'd read about these exercises to strengthen the rotator cuff called internal and external rotations and then stumbled across a post from Fadi here where he linked a vid of Branch Warren doing them. In the examples I read online they were saying to do it lying on your side, but Branch Warren does them standing up...much more practical and less idiotic looking.

I've been doing 2 sets of both internal and external rotations at the start of every non-leg workout religiously for the last 7-8 months and its worked great. I won't stop doing them either, I think they're a great safeguard exercise at the start of a workout. Do a search to see how they're done.

I never did thank Fadi for that either. Thanks Fadi, you are a legend mate. Did you ever know that you're my hero? You're everything I wish I could be. Shiiiit, I'm getting sidetracked.

Good luck, have a Bonza time!

 

[dave]

I'll post up some info for you tomorrow night.
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[Fadi]

Ah you're a classic DKD ! Here's the original post Bonza Rotator Cuff without the Branch Warren link though. It has been removed from youtube.

Perform one arm dumbell rows to balance with your chest muscles. In fact, there should always be a balance between pulling and pushing exercises. I'll leave the rest for Dave to elaborate on since he's got something in mind.


Fadi.

 

[gareer]

Fadi is a few peoples hero on here. Especially the young guys!

Also sidetracked but, I've got reasonably good shoulders but agree with dkd. Super important to warm them up or problems will occur! Too many ways for the shoulder to get hurt

 

[Fadi]

Fadi is a few peoples hero on here. Especially the young guys!

Also sidetracked but, I've got reasonably good shoulders but agree with dkd. Super important to warm them up or problems will occur! Too many ways for the shoulder to get hurt

Thank you Gareer, you guys are my real heroes.

When it comes to the rotator cuff, one only needs between 1-3kg to work them effectively. That said, one can do them at work, home, anywhere really so please do not restrict acknowledging their presence only for the gym. The reason we get injured in that area is because some of us have the attitude of it's out of sight/out of mind, and therefore "does not exist! We all know better I'm sure of it.

While I'm on what we can not see, we have to make more effort to make a mind/muscle connection with muscles we do not see such as the magnificent back muscles. However we can not do that if we pile on the weight and heave through the set felling nothing except shoulders and forearms. It's time to take some weight off and increase the reps to make that mind/muscle connection, get the form right, and then move on to heavier weights. I'll leave it here and thank you for reading.


Fadi.

 

[Bonza]

Yes I have decided less is more and that even with lighter weights I am sure to respond due to 'muscle memory'.

I have some light physio excercises prescribed by my doc that involve the rotator exercises and some neck pushing. It looks ridiculous but hey I will just find a corner in the gym and do it.

Plan on warming up every session and I might try writing the alphabets with the medicine ball so I stay fresh for uni as well

Thanks all!

 

[dave]

I can not give you anything specific as I do not know your history or where you are at now. But if you have moved on from the physio and are ready for exercising again I can give you some suggestions for your training. Hopefully your physio went through a lot of activation exercises to work on activating the right muscles when performing exercises as well as basic strengthening.

Firstly, you want to start of by working on being able to use your scapula properly. If you do not have good scapula positioning and control all the external rotation exercises will not be of use as your shoulder joint will still be in a poor position (stretching and weakening the external rotators). So you need to work on stretching your major internal rotating muscles and in specific your pec minor and major and anterior deltoid. In conjunction with this you need to strengthen the scapula retractors and depressors which are mainly your rhomboids and lower and mid traps.

You should be looking to be doing 3 times as much back work as pressing. Cut out benching and dips (which I see you can not do) and anything similar. If you have been to physio you should be able to do military press (light weights) for learning scapula control. Basically you are focussing on making sure your scapula moves correctly whilst you perform a MP. You can also do this with lateral raises if you have serious issues with the MP. Your back exercises should include a row (seated, bent over, t bar), a unilateral dumbbell row and prone t's and y's (reverse dumbbell flyes). You can also swap in some band pull-a-parts or face pulls for one of the rowing exercises if you would like. For now that should assist in getting your scapula issues corrected you should be looking at doing that for at least 8 weeks so that your issues are far behind. If you have sufficient scapula strength and control by then you can reduce the pull to press ratio to 2:1 (reducing one row). You can do the external rotation exercises the way Fadi has suggested outside of the gym, just do not over do them so low weight or use therabands and focus on the contraction and utilise higher repetitions for now.

I hope that helps.

 

[Shrek]

I never did thank Fadi for that either. Thanks Fadi, you are a legend mate. Did you ever know that you're my hero? You're everything I wish I could be. Shiiiit, I'm getting sidetracked.

Good luck, have a Bonza time!

LOL, you're a funny nut.l

Bonza time.

 

[Bonza]

Lol@the cokehead emoticon

Dave you have hit the nail on the head with your post mate, sort of tailored to my condition here.

I will post a workout for you to tweek in the near future.

A quick question, for 'Lay pulldowns' is it ok to perform the pulldown in front instead of behind the neck? Obviously the effectiveness maybe no where near but from the something is better than nothing perspective.

Yesterday I did the following

Manually Physio
Rotator 5x2 (2kgs)

Pullups : 8x1 (bodyweight)
Lat pulldown : 10x3 (35kgs)
Machine Rowing : 10x3 (45kgs)

DB Shoulder press : 8x3 (7.5kgs)
Rear Delt Machine : 10x3 (25kgs)

Hyper extension/Roman chair : 8x1 (bodyweight)

Elliptical 20 mins.

Last week I did some light rotator work and cardio 3 non consecutive days.

Thanks everybody!!!!

 

[dave]

Pull to the front, pulling to the back is asking for an impingement which you may be prone to.

 

[GoPies]

Would military press be ok? And if so would seated military press be better than standing? I know this is fraught with danger but I have been youtubing to find a good example but it seems like everyone has a different opinion

Could someone please link to a vid demonstrating the 'proper' technique for military press (both seated and standing) ?

If someone with prior shoulder injuries shouldn't do military press what should they do for their shoulders instead?

 

[dave]

That depends on the shoulder injury and if you get pain doing a MP
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[Bonza]

Manuall Physio stretches.
Rotator 10x2 (1kgs)

BB Squats : 5x5 (50kgs)

Flat DB press : 10x3 (10kgs)
Db Reverse Flys : 10x3 (5kgs)

1 arm DB Row : 10x2 (10kgs) 10x1 (12.5kg)

DB Shrugs : 10x3 (17.5kgs)

Tricep Pulldown : 8x1 (18kg) 8x1 (28kgs) 8x1 (36kgs)

Hyper extension/Roman chair : 8x1 (bodyweight)

Leg stretches as Im hitting the squat rack after months.

Feel free to criticize

 

[dave]

No shrugs do another row movement instead.MP instead of benching, benching doesn't teach proper scapula control, it in fact inhibits it.
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[Bonza]

Thanks for watching out for me dave! I really appreciate it.

What sort of chest work do you recommened since I will omit all forms of benching for the next 6-8 weeks. I can think of machine pec flys and I never did any cable work before but I guess its a good time as any to start?

Earlier after I came out of 5x5 I followed a

Chest/Tri
Back/Bi
Legs
Shoulders

sort of split during the week.

With your recommendation of 2:1 pullush I am assuming the ratio needs to be in place every workout and not just over the course of the week?

I really appreciate you taking the time out to help, I have stayed away long enough and now need to get back and with my limited knowledge and resources I have a good chance of screwing up in the long run if it wasnt for you an Fadi and others on the forum.

Thanks!

 

[dave]

3:1 pullush every workout, no direct chest exercise. You work on your control with the MP and in a couple of months you can move on to pushups for a while (weighted to make them harder) and from there you can progress to other exercises.

You should stick with a full body 3 day a week program. For a beginner level it is better than a split but also it gives you more strengthening of the back musculature and more time to practice the MP which will increase your ability to use your scapula properly faster.

Something like this 3x a week would be fine:

Squat
Stiff Legged Deadlift (or something similar)
Seated Row (5-8 reps, your heavier back strengthening exercise)
MP (12 reps focus on keeping the scapula moving with the arm and returning to a retracted position at the end)
One arm Row (12 reps, focus on the movement)
Reverse dumbbell flyes (higher reps 15 area)

 

[Bonza]

Iv had a about 3 workouts and your a top bloke Dave, things seem to be progressing well with no pain during or post workout.

Workout A
Military press
Db reverse flys
Seated Rowing (machine)
1 arm DB Rows
Stiff leg deadlift

Workout B
BB Squats
Military Press
Seated Rowing (machine)
Db reverse flys
Side lateral (machine)

I warm up before my workouts with a DB rotator exercise for my right shoulder

Post workout I perform the shoulder dislocations exactly as follows :

One set of 10 reps.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=33P5AI27eiU&feature=player_embedded"]YouTube - Shoulder Dislocations[/ame]

 

[dave]

Have you had an assessment lately? Before starting? you should give it 8 weeks and reassess how it's going and get some functional test done ROM and strength plus pain. If you haven't it doesn't matter it would just be better so you know how it is progressing objectively. Strength should be easy to gauge as you lift, pain is sometimes harder to gauge and ROM usually needs someone elses help but you can get an idea just by feel and daily use.
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