Mike's Diet

[MikeW]

Hi Guys,

OK, finally trying to get more scientific about my diet. To date I've just tried to have 6 meals a day and aim for a serve of protein in each so I can get my 180gm a day. But the downside to that is I eat too many carbs and fats and sometimes miss the protein serves when things get too hectic. I plan to lock down a regimented diet and pre cook all my daytime meals for the week ahead on the weekend.

I've based it largely on Fadi's 2200cal diet as well as another 2000cal diet I got from a bodybuilding book, can't remember the author.

Not sure how this will post up, but here goes. Based on my bodyweight of 75kg (165lbs), I'm aiming for 1800cals to put me in growth mode at a mix of 50% carbs, 40% proteins and 10% Dietary Fats.

Diet A is my primary diet and I'll stick with that for now which is 1955cals and above my 1800cal target so any ideas on stripping some cals would be appreciated. I might just substitute Fadi's lunch for the Beef one currently selected. That gets my total to 1747 which is pretty much spot on.

Thanks guys,
Mike

 

[Shrek]

I wish you all the best of luck Mike.
Dieting is the hardest part about body re-compisition, weather bulking or dieting down.
Too many cals or fat and you blow up, not enough cals and or protein and you loose muscle..grrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

 

[derkaderka]

Hi Guys,

OK, finally trying to get more scientific about my diet. To date I've just tried to have 6 meals a day and aim for a serve of protein in each so I can get my 180gm a day. But the downside to that is I eat too many carbs and fats and sometimes miss the protein serves when things get too hectic. I plan to lock down a regimented diet and pre cook all my daytime meals for the week ahead on the weekend.

I've based it largely on Fadi's 2200cal diet as well as another 2000cal diet I got from a bodybuilding book, can't remember the author.

Not sure how this will post up, but here goes. Based on my bodyweight of 75kg (165lbs), I'm aiming for 1800cals to put me in growth mode at a mix of 50% carbs, 40% proteins and 10% Dietary Fats.

Diet A is my primary diet and I'll stick with that for now which is 1955cals and above my 1800cal target so any ideas on stripping some cals would be appreciated. I might just substitute Fadi's lunch for the Beef one currently selected. That gets my total to 1747 which is pretty much spot on.

Thanks guys,
Mike

I'd try to drop the lunch and dinner protein down a little and spread it around the mid morning meals and mid afternoon meals.
Your carbs are WAY too high at night IF your going for a very low bodyfat level as it's looks like your trying to do.

You diet looks to complex hence the reason you suggested you may miss protein serves, i never miss a meal when dieting down.

 

[Fadi]

Hi Guys,


I've based it largely on Fadi's 2200cal diet as well as another 2000cal diet I got from a bodybuilding book, can't remember the author.

Thanks guys,
Mike

Hello Mike,

Your fat percentage is very scary at 10%. I'd never go below the 30% mark, not if I want my immune system to be in top shape, not to mention my endocrine system. To be frank with you Mike, I would not even go so low with my calories but would rather up the frequency of my activities to serve as a caloric expenditure tool.

Remember I was having 13500 calories with striated muscles all due to the high level of training I was doing at the time. Bringing your calories down to such a low level may send the wrong (the opposite) message to your body which may result in a severe metabolism slow down.

If you're taking steroids (which is not something we condone around here), then the whole ball game would change.

Take home message: Up your calories as well as your activity levels and don’t rush it.


Fadi.

 

[dave]

More fat, listen to Fadi you need fat to function properly. I would say more calories too, I would go as low as 1800 for 1 week at max to drop a little extra weight but nothing over that one week. Also when do you train? That should have a bearing on the meals and carb intake.

 

[derkaderka]

if he's trying to go lower on his bodyfat he most certaintly should not up his calories. If he is trying to add lean mass then he should increase calories slowly into his diet. As for 30% Fadi i'm not keen as when insulin is released from the pancrease your fat in the meal is getting "shuttled" straight into your fat stores. I try to putb my fat with my protien meals not with carbs.

 

[Christian]

if he's trying to go lower on his bodyfat he most certaintly should not up his calories. If he is trying to add lean mass then he should increase calories slowly into his diet. As for 30% Fadi i'm not keen as when insulin is released from the pancrease your fat in the meal is getting "shuttled" straight into your fat stores. I try to putb my fat with my protien meals not with carbs.

Thats only if your mcles arnt primed for it.. also fat/fibre/protein bluntin insulins response, As simple carbs on their own are mainly absorbed via the stomach but when fat is added they go the whole way...

 

[MikeW]

Guys,

Thanks for the good insight. For context, I'm trying to bulk but want to lose some bodyfat at the same time. I'd say my bodyfat percent at the moment is around 20% which is above where I want it to be.

As a novice trying to sort out a basic diet it is quite difficult with the differing opinions. I figured around 2000cals would be about right for the work I'm doing and my 75kg bodyweight at 20% bodyfat. My day job is sedentary and my only real exercise is my three times a week weight sessions. I'm doing PPP so max reps of 5 and lower.

More fat, listen to Fadi you need fat to function properly. I would say more calories too, I would go as low as 1800 for 1 week at max to drop a little extra weight but nothing over that one week. Also when do you train? That should have a bearing on the meals and carb intake.

Dave, I work out in the evenings around 5:30pm Tue/Thu and at 10:00am on Sat.

Derkaderka, what would you mix up for that evening snack before bed. Should I just go for a cassein protein in skim milk. I know it shouldn't be whey protein because of the quick absorption so am going to buy some cassein and substitute in the pre-bed drink.

I also have 3 tabs of fish oil, 1 tab multi-vitamin and 2 tabs dim daily. I also plan on adding creatine in when I get around to buying some.

Fadi, I really value your opinions so appreciate your insight. Many thanks!

Cheers,
Mike

 

[derkaderka]

Thats only if your mcles arnt primed for it.. also fat/fibre/protein bluntin insulins response, As simple carbs on their own are mainly absorbed via the stomach but when fat is added they go the whole way...

If he wants to cut he needs to keep the fats as minimal as possible with carbs meals and keep carbs low at night.

 

[derkaderka]

Guys,

Thanks for the good insight. For context, I'm trying to bulk but want to lose some bodyfat at the same time. I'd say my bodyfat percent at the moment is around 20% which is above where I want it to be.

As a novice trying to sort out a basic diet it is quite difficult with the differing opinions. I figured around 2000cals would be about right for the work I'm doing and my 75kg bodyweight at 20% bodyfat. My day job is sedentary and my only real exercise is my three times a week weight sessions. I'm doing PPP so max reps of 5 and lower.



Dave, I work out in the evenings around 5:30pm Tue/Thu and at 10:00am on Sat.

Derkaderka, what would you mix up for that evening snack before bed. Should I just go for a cassein protein in skim milk. I know it shouldn't be whey protein because of the quick absorption so am going to buy some cassein and substitute in the pre-bed drink.

I also have 3 tabs of fish oil, 1 tab multi-vitamin and 2 tabs dim daily. I also plan on adding creatine in when I get around to buying some.

Fadi, I really value your opinions so appreciate your insight. Many thanks!

Cheers,
Mike

My understanding is that you cannot increase your bodyweight at the same time as you are trying to lose bodyfat, but you can alter your body composition at the same weight such as 75kgs 10% bodyfat down to 75kgs at 8% bodyfat etc. So your not really increasing weight but the ratios of muscle and fat.

From my personal experience if you are trying to lose alot of bodyfat and get down to a low level you need to eliminate complex carbs at night. Yes i'd suggest micellar and also putting some good fats with the shake as it will slow down the abosrtion of the protien and night while your sleeping plus getting good fats into your diet.

eg micellar shake plus 2 heaped teaspoons of natural peanut butter. I'd try and skip the milk or use as little as possible as you'll get carbs that you don't want to consume before bed.

 

[Christian]

If he wants to cut he needs to keep the fats as minimal as possible with carbs meals and keep carbs low at night.

That sounds a bit too atkins for my liking...

Eating fat doesnt promote fat storage in anyway unless you are eating excess calories. In fact it bluntins insulin wich is the anabolic hormone that is more responsible for pushing excess energy as in glucose into cells..

 

[derkaderka]

That sounds a bit too atkins for my liking...

Eating fat doesnt promote fat storage in anyway unless you are eating excess calories. In fact it bluntins insulin wich is the anabolic hormone that is more responsible for pushing excess energy as in glucose into cells..

Atkins is a high fat high protein diet, not a protein carbo low fat diet. Do you know what an atkins diet is?

 

[derkaderka]

That sounds a bit too atkins for my liking...

Eating fat doesnt promote fat storage in anyway unless you are eating excess calories. In fact it bluntins insulin wich is the anabolic hormone that is more responsible for pushing excess energy as in glucose into cells..

I'm was suggesting what he can do to increase fat loss or increase muscle size, there's no atkins to it like your suggesting incorrectly

 

[Fadi]

Mike, if you are at 20% body fat and you have a sedentary job, then your issue is metabolism manipulation more than anything else. That is, you're going to have to speed up your metabolism and the best way I can think of doing that is to get more active rather than reduce calories so drastically.

Fat is not the devil here and neither is insulin if you use it to your advantage, since it does have a double edged sword. Carbohydrates should be concentrated around your workout times and since I'm asking you to increase the frequency of your training, insulin might just become more of a friend than an enemy here.

Why?

Two reasons...

1. Fat storage from carbs is near impossible after a kick ass workout due to the rise in insulin sensitivity at the cellular level and...

2. By increasing your training frequency, you become like those Olympic weightlifters who look very lean despite the high caloric consumption they go through (as I've mentioned before with my 13500 calorie intake); the crucial factor/change that takes place here is that your cells become sensitive to insulin and carbs would be driven into the muscle cells to form glycogen, whilst a small excess would be burned by your (now) faster and speeding metabolism (due to the increase in training frequency)

When I speak of training frequency, I'm not restricting myself to gym workouts here Mike; it's up to you what you want to include as an activity. I suggest looking over here for some ideas Mike: Let’s Lose Some Fat Mass…

And yes, this simple factor of losing some fat mass can get very confusing if you decide to follow instructions from more than one person. Take in what the people are saying here but only follow one idea or you will get totally confused. There is not just a one way to lose fat, so if someone (irrespective of who they are and what their credential may be) comes along and tells you that it's my way or the highway, I for one would most certainly choose the highway.

All the best Mike.


Fadi.

 

[dave]

Fadi's last point is really good, you want to find a good method that you will stick to. I hate moderate 'cardio' work, but I love sprinting so I sprint to lose fat. It increases your metabolism and can be rejigged to either burn lots of calories, improve cardiovascular fitness or just stimulate my metabolism and not eat too much into my recovery. I could walk for 2 hours a day to lose fat that would work too but I don't have the time and it's a little boring. I also have a dog so I factor in our nightly 30 min walks (where I perform my band rehab work). Work your carb meals into workout times and add some fat to your other meals throughout the day. This doesn't mean go low carb but just change the structure a little. Maybe you should start a thread on it, or put what you have thought about in your workout thread.
Posted via Mobile Device

 

[Christian]

I'm was suggesting what he can do to increase fat loss or increase muscle size, there's no atkins to it like your suggesting incorrectly

The point about, fat with carbs and protein with fat is good but fat and carbs together is bad so they advocate not having carbs because u cvant have a carb and fat meal on its own...

What i said was not incorrect do some reading on it.

 

[Shrek]

Gee, is it a full moon tonight.
Accusations and insults galore.

Posts deleted.

 

[MikeW]

Maybe you should start a thread on it, or put what you have thought about in your workout thread.

Dave,

Good call. Can one of the Mods strip this sub=thread out under a new heading "Mikes diet plan, ideas appreciated" and I'll post up responses to the comments above and some more thoughts on where I'm at in my journey and what I'm trying to achieve. This is to good a thread on its own to sabotage.

Cheers,
Mike

 

[Shrek]

Mike,
I started a new thread for you.

 

[MikeW]

Mike,
I started a new thread for you.

Thanks mate!

OK, this might be of use to quite a few novices at my level. To put it into perspective, I've been training on and off for years and know enough to be dangerous without the discipline and diet to see sustained gains.

So, I've turned over a new leaf and really want to lock everything down tight to see what I can achieve with discipline. I'm going to work Markos' PPP programme on Tue/Thu/Sat doing Squats/Bench/Deads and have the discipline to stick to this.

What I'm missing is a good "starting" diet that I can then put the bells and whistles on as I learn more about how my body responds.

I weigh 75kg so figure around the 1800cal mark is appropriate as my BMR technically requires 1600cals or thereabouts.

I figure if I keep it simple and go for 30gm of protein in each of my six daily meals then I get to 180gm. If I add a PWO shake then I'm at 210gm which should ensure my muscles have the material they need to grow. I'll use WPC for my shakes in the day and add Cassein to the pre-bed shake as my 6th "meal" of the day. Each meal should be a serve of protein and a serve of carbs.

My protein sources are (for one 30gm serve):
180gm chicken breast
180gm tuna/fish
180gm lean beef
5 large egg whites
900ml non-fat milk
40gm WPC

My carb sources are (for one 25gm serve):
30gm rice
30gm pasta
40gm oatmeal
1 medium potato
1 piece of fruit
240ml fruit juice

Dietary Fat sources are (aiming 10%)
6gms = 180gm skinless chicken breast
2gms = 180gm water packed tuna
10gms = 180gm lean beef
4gms = 1 whole egg
3gms = 40gm oatmeal

My aim is to build some serious muscle mass but I want to strip the 20% body fat as I go. I'm not much into cycling the training/diet so was looking for a pretty neat starting diet that would ensure my muscles got what they needed to grow as much as possible whilst not loading the system with too much carbs or fats that I hold weight elsewhere. Pretty simple. Big muscles, low fat.

I'll tweak it as time goes by, but have to start somewhere.

Until recently I've been doing three square meals a day in big portions. Used to like my ice cream for dessert and a couple of beers or glasses of wine with dinner every night. Breakfast was a "healthy" bowl of cereal with milk, i.e. no protein to talk of. Lunch was normally some chicken breast and salad pre-prepared which was pretty good. Dinner whatever my wife cooked but could be roast, pasta, stir fry, salmon etc. Nothing before bed. Lots of white carbs, not enough meals and not enough protein. So basically anything is a good step forward...

Recently I've shifted to having a cereal breakfast with a WPC shake for breakfast including my three fish oil tabs, a multi-vitamin and dim. Last two days have been 5 egg whites fried with no oil on two pieces wholemeal toast no butter. Then cottage cheese or WPC shake with milk mid-morning. Lunch no real change. Mid-afternoon WPC shake. Workout at 5:30pm and dinner straight after. If dinner is an hour off I'll have a PWO shake. Dinner is still predominately what my wife cooks but she's cutting carbs out of her diet because of genetic high cholesterol (aboriginal decent) so that's a bonus. Pre-bed WPC shake and aim to move this to Cassein.

Any and all suggestions greatly appreciated. And I reckon there might just be a few guys out there who'd benefit from a "beginner's toning and growing diet".

Thanks for all the suggestions to date.

Cheers,
Mike