Forward!

It doesn't matter where you are, so long as you're going forwards.

Writing about this was inspired by this thread...

PTC said:

When I first started, I had a few boards removed from my front fence, just outside the gym. It was called the Zubi Hole, named after Zubi who only lasted around 13 minutes.

I'm too embarassed to put up the workout he did because you wont believe me, needless to say the Paris, my 12yo daughter couldve done it.

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-LJ- said:

I think I'm a Zubi at the moment, don't laugh, its from years of inactivity and lazyness. I can only do 30kg on squats and when I started, 15lb D/B curls. I see guys with 45kg dumbell and I can't believe how strong some of them are!

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Zubi quit after 13 minutes that time. Then quit permanently six weeks after that.

So lucku is already tougher than Zubi ever was.

Remember: it doesn't matter what I do today, only that I do more than yesterday.

Too many people get discouraged by their first poor performance at something, and give up. In How to be an expert, the writer tells that,


This is why you get guys who can bench more than they squat, and (mostly) why 90% of new gym members stop going within three months. "It's hard, I suck at this, I give up." But doing the things you suck at makes you good. Success comes from failure.

To take up the iron you must empty your hands of the ego they're holding protectively. I went to PTC yesterday and did two exercises I'd never done before in my life - kettlebell deadlifts and Tabata thrusters. Guess what? I sucked. I wanted to quit one minute into the thrusters, Markos wouldn't let me, I kept going, but I still sucked in the end. So what? It's good that I sucked, that means it'll be easy to do better next time, and the time after that. I'll get better.

So lucku is showing exactly the right attitude. Just keep going forward, however slowly and however hard.

Whatever is your weakest exercise in the gym, do it first in the workout, and do it harder than all the rest. Leave your strongest one till last, that's dessert. Keep moving forward.

In all fairness, Zubi didnt quit, he vomited for around 20 minutes, then got in his car to drive to Doncaster, he pulled over two more times on the Eastern Freeway to chuck.

He weighed 56kg, a fully grown male, when he started and we used empty 20kg bars on squat, bench and deadlifts.

A month later he was 65kg and deadlifting 140kg.

He vomited during every twice a week session. He finally gave up after 6 weeks.

He does live an hour and fifteen away, and works late at Channel 9.

Thats the whole story.

Important to be fair, and I edited the post to show that. Moral of the story is the same, though

kyle i'm just lucky that im still a student...
so i dont have much things to worry about...

If i were to vomit every session...
i think i'll give up within a month :x

Also, I thought LJ and lucku were 2 different people, but on the whole I agree heartily with the sentiments of this thread!

Alba is another different case altogether.

He found out about PTC through the Nissan Silvia forum, as did Zubi.

Alba came and observed a cardio session, thought it looked okay, said he would be back for the next session. He had trained in gyms previously and got nowhere.

Ten minutes into the cardio session, his body seized up, he literally couldnt move, so I had him do some very very light benching.

The vomiting was so violent, that all the cardio clients who were outside, had to come into the gym, it was very, very off putting.

I had him stay for an hour or so before I let him drive, he was a mess. He vowed he would come back. I've never seen him since.

He keeps in contact via email, said he is slowly losing weight and getting stronger.

Thats good to hear.

That is amazing progress to go from an empty bar deadlift to 140kg deadlift in 6 weeks!!!

katie said:

Also, I thought LJ and lucku were 2 different people, but on the whole I agree heartily with the sentiments of this thread!

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Woops, hard to remember the ones without avatars.

Poor Alba.

But seriously, vomiting is just a sign of not listening to your body. Well, vomiting more than once in a session, anyway - anyone can go, "woops, pushed it too far, time to slow down." You feel bad, stop. I guess we can use Zubi's story to talk about knowing your limits. It certainly ties into the "take your ego out of your protective hands and replace it with iron" thing, though.

I've also had 3 female personal trainers who were brought along by mutual friends who train and still train at PTC. None of the 3 could keep up with my clients , their friends, and have not set foot back at PTC.

PTC is not for everyone

PTC said:

I've also had 3 female personal trainers who were brought along by mutual friends who train and still train at PTC. None of the 3 could keep up with my clients , their friends, and have not set foot back at PTC.

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See now that is simply ego. And that stands in the way of your progress - and your success as a trainer in your own right.

I know of more than one guy who says he'll reject advice, even if he knows it's good advice that can help him, because it comes from a particular person or is said in a particular tone. That is quite human and very common, but it does stand in the way of your progress.

I think it's particularly important for a PT to have the experience of sucking badly at some physical activity, because that's how a completely sedentary new client will feel. I don't think you need to have lifted 100kg to help someone else lift 100kg (though I should have lifted something!), but you certainly need to have failed and then pushed on anyway to help someone fail and push on anyway.

I can't expect other people to go through sucking and get better unless I've done it.

Josh_GTiR said:

That is amazing progress to go from an empty bar deadlift to 140kg deadlift in 6 weeks!!!

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PTC....where amazing happens

Its a great result, but the empty bar obviously wasnt a PB, its just that I was scared he was going to break, and he had already squatted.

I dont have a single male client who cant deadlift 150kg.

Juddy, Simmo and Russ have been at PTC for 4 weeks. Simmo pulled 150kg last night, Juddy did 160kg and Russ pulled 170kg.

NPR had some weightlifter telling him that he was a naural deadlifter. He told NPR that he could deadlift 200kg. NPR deadlifts 230kg and has only the 8th best deadlift at PTC.

The reason for these huge deadlifts as I have mentioned before is that we concentrate on posterior chain strength first at PTC.

Thats why we have 39 lifters who deadlift 200kg + as opposed to only 12 lifters who can bench 140kg +

Sorry Kyle...off topic, nice thread

Kyle Aaron said:

See now that is simply ego. And that stands in the way of your progress - and your success as a trainer in your own right.

I know of more than one guy who says he'll reject advice, even if he knows it's good advice that can help him, because it comes from a particular person or is said in a particular tone. That is quite human and very common, but it does stand in the way of your progress.

I think it's particularly important for a PT to have the experience of sucking badly at some physical activity, because that's how a completely sedentary new client will feel. I don't think you need to have lifted 100kg to help someone else lift 100kg (though I should have lifted something!), but you certainly need to have failed and then pushed on anyway to help someone fail and push on anyway.

I can't expect other people to go through sucking and get better unless I've done it.

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Kyle, I asked the clients how they got the PT's to come to PTC. They all said that they had been training at this place and they could now do this and that. I feel the PT's were suspicious of girls deadlifting 100kg plus or doing exercises with 64kg KB's. I'm glad you at least got to see one of my lighter girls pull 107.5kg. I fimed Becs 130kg effort for my next video.

I will say that all 3 PT's were a nice shape, they were slightly on the heavier side of average, but I much prefer that look on a woman, they looked very healthy and I'm sure they would be very competent on the kind of exercise they prefered, most of which is machine based.

One was shocked at how deep I made the girls squat, stating she only had them unlock their knees

Not off-topic at all. It tells us what happens when you try something, suck at it, and keep at it. You excel.

This is actually an advert, and you guys will think I'm corny for linking to Stallone, but I think this is relevant and true:-

[YOUTUBE]elpC01CZn6U[/YOUTUBE]

As for the rest... I don't think it matters what kind of training they're used to or give, to be a good PT you need the experience of getting knocked down and getting back up. You can't ask your clients to do that unless you have.

Kyle Aaron said:

I don't think you need to have lifted 100kg to help someone else lift 100kg (though I should have lifted something!), but you certainly need to have failed and then pushed on anyway to help someone fail and push on anyway..

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I know what you are saying Kyle but I disagree.

If I want to Bench 180kg, it would be stupid to go and see a trainer who can only bench 100kg. The same goes that if I want to build a physique to win BB comps it would be stupid to go to your run of the mill Fitness First PT.

Once you get above the novice/intermediate level of weight training (or anything for that matter) things start to get a lot harder, injuries occur, progress halts. You need people who have been through these issues and knows how to deal with them. You need someone with real experience.

yeah i think so too. theres a level that many people can teach others up to but once you start hitting that advanced bracket you want experienced trainers that have been there and done that.

To be clear: obviously there are levels to training. I, who am always restricting my advice to beginner stuff - well, you know I know that.

But those levels aren't infinite in gradation. If they were, no-one could ever train anyone else to lift heavier than they ever did, which means new records would never be set. And obviously they are.

NPR said:

Once you get above the novice/intermediate level of weight training (or anything for that matter) things start to get a lot harder, injuries occur, progress halts. You need people who have been through these issues and knows how to deal with them. You need someone with real experience.

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Absolutely. But I would argue that beyond the novice/intermediate level, something like this article is no longer so relevant.

It's not the people who lift 160kg today and then fail on their 165kg who say, "I suck, I give up." It's people who lift 20kg and then fail on 25kg, or who thought they were strong in lifting 40kg and then visit a place where everyone else is lifting 100kg, it's them who say, "I suck, I give up."

Remember: 90% of new gym-goers give up within 3 months. Those 10% who get through it don't need much motivational advice, they've got through the worst already. As always, I'm focusing on the beginners because that's what I know the most about. And anyway that's most of the people in gyms.

By the way, among "beginners" I include those who've been doing it for a few years without much result. Who are part of the 10% who stick it out. So sticking it out is obviously not everything. But it's the foundation without which the rest cannot stand.

Heres my two dracmas

Firstly, its why I consider myself a Strength and Conditioning coach rather than a PT, as does Nick and Max.

Having trained thousands of people, I have come to the conclusion that if you train hard in the gym for 2-3 years, doing basic excersises, you should be able to bench 120kg, squat 150kg and deadlift 200kg. No trainers needed.

As all those lifts move upwards by 30kg each, your going to need some specialization work, unless you weigh 120kg. I'm referring to a 200lb (90kg) lifter.

There are millions of lifters around the world who have done this without the help of a coach, and a million more will do it, heck, even I did it.

But here is the difference, with coaching by someone that HAS done it, Max will achieve it before the age of 19, not 40.

When you pay a coach, one that has at the very least accomplished bigger lifts than Joe Average in the gym, you EXPECT to get better results faster than Joe Average.

I'm not sure a trainer that hasnt squatted 200kg can teach a lifter to get to 200kg. I'm not saying it cant be done, I'm just saying that if your going to hand over dollars, you wanna be pretty sure the guy TAKING the money can do for you what he did for himself.

Josh asked me recently whether I was proud of Max. Of course I am, I'm proud of all my kids. Others have asked me how much I would of lifted if I knew then what I know now. Thats easy, watch Max. He is showing me what wouldve been possible if I had myself as a coach.

I powercleaned 107.5kg at age 45 weighing 90kg.

He powercleaned 110kg at age 17 weighing 68kg.

Its the same with all the lifts. He will pass my lifts before the age of 20.

Now plenty of his mates lift in commercial gyms, quite a few with PT's due to their sport.

Why cant they do what he does?

And Kyle, trust me when I tell you that the 10% that get through the first 3 months, have not remotely got through the hard part lol

Its 2 years away from beginning. The only way to increase your squat from 180kg is to squat OVER 180kg every session..........does that sound easy?

This is one of the few sports that gets the harder the better you get.

My success as a coach can only be measured by how many lifters I can get to lift MORE than I ever did. Simply getting stronger does not require a coach, getting much stronger faster does. Testosterone peaks by age 28, it comes around quicker than you think.

I'm hoping to have Nick at squatting 250kg, deadlifting 300kg and benching 180kg by the time he is 28.

Our sport is unique in that there is a definite line from when you need to change lifting techniques/training/mindset to improve. Obviously you dont need to continually keep swapping coaches, Louie Simmonds for instance has a gym full of stronger guys than him, but he is much stronger than the level where EVERYONE can achieve without coaching.

Until you've had a guy stuck on a 125kg bench for 6 months, and cant improve, you wont understand.

I do like the fact you stick to novices for the moment, as your advice to them is very sound. You may well be able to learn techniques by reading rather than lifting, and help a lifter get to the "other side"...but you'll need to prove it first.

see you Thursday

PTC said:

I do like the fact you stick to novices for the moment, as your advice to them is very sound. You may well be able to learn techniques by reading rather than lifting, and help a lifter get to the "other side"...but you'll need to prove it first.

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I don't believe I can learn techniques by reading rather than lifting, and said that both in person and online. I am sure that every one of my basic lifts is wrong in some way - and I have to learn by doing, and learn from someone much more experienced than me.

But there are other things I can learn by reading, and some (not all) of those things will be useful in various ways.

I think I know how to get a person off to the right start. That's about all I know at the moment. I think I could turn that 10% into 20% or so. I could get them from the (for example) 0kg bench to the 60-80kg (ie bodyweight) bench. I need to learn more to get them to that 120kg bench you're saying lots of lifters manage on their own in two years, and help them do it more quickly.

I'd have no clue how to get them from 120 to 150kg. Yes, there are definitely levels to training. I think it's alright to focus on one level. Just as we have primary, secondary and tertiary teachers, so too can we have trainers for beginners, intermediates and advanced. Some particularly talented people may be good at two or even all three. Will that be me? I don't know. I consider myself one-quarter-way for the beginners, and that's it.

And for them, getting through those first few months, being willing to fail - that's the key thing.

see you Thursday

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You bet

I must say Kyle thank you for all the help and advice you have given me, it has certainly movtivated me to improve and work harder!

Good reading guys. Thank you.


Fadi.