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NotBigNuf
Guest
dunno... ther not very big or ripped
Kyle Aaron
Active member
NotBigNuf, I know lots of guys in my gym and elsewhere who do split routines in the first 12 months of their lifting.
I know lots of guys who are not very big, not very fit, and do not lift very heavy.
Fair and not overly ambitious goals for the first 12 months of lifting are 5 or more reps of,
- bench, 1x bodyweight
- bent-over barbell row, 1x bodyweight
- military press, 0.75x bodyweight
- deadlift, 1.75x bodyweight
- squat, 1.5x bodyweight
If anyone can point me to someone who achieved this with just a split routine and mostly isolation exercises over those 12 months, I would be very interested to see them. There are certainly none in my gym.
I'd like to see them in a room together with the people who got six-pack abs from endless sets of crunches, big arms from just curls and tricep kickbacks, and the women who toned up their tummies, hips and thighs just from cardio. It would be very instructive to have all the people who achieved those things sitting in a room together.
But my instinct is that the room would be empty.
I would also be interested to see a person who did nothing but a full-body workout of compound lifts 2 or more times a week, making sure that in each workout they did either more weight, or more reps, or more sets on every exercise, and who after a year of training without injury could not manage the above lifts.
pistachio, bent rows, bench press and dips all use your arms... and use quite a lot of weight on them, definitely more than you could curl.
I know lots of guys who are not very big, not very fit, and do not lift very heavy.
Fair and not overly ambitious goals for the first 12 months of lifting are 5 or more reps of,
- bench, 1x bodyweight
- bent-over barbell row, 1x bodyweight
- military press, 0.75x bodyweight
- deadlift, 1.75x bodyweight
- squat, 1.5x bodyweight
If anyone can point me to someone who achieved this with just a split routine and mostly isolation exercises over those 12 months, I would be very interested to see them. There are certainly none in my gym.
I'd like to see them in a room together with the people who got six-pack abs from endless sets of crunches, big arms from just curls and tricep kickbacks, and the women who toned up their tummies, hips and thighs just from cardio. It would be very instructive to have all the people who achieved those things sitting in a room together.
But my instinct is that the room would be empty.
I would also be interested to see a person who did nothing but a full-body workout of compound lifts 2 or more times a week, making sure that in each workout they did either more weight, or more reps, or more sets on every exercise, and who after a year of training without injury could not manage the above lifts.
pistachio, bent rows, bench press and dips all use your arms... and use quite a lot of weight on them, definitely more than you could curl.
pistachio
Member
i know what muscles the exercises use, i guess my question is do indirect exercises (i.e. NOT working the biceps directly or in isolation) provide any gains to a person who is not endo/meso?
i have never had sore biceps/triceps after doing any compound exercise, only from working them in isolation. now the debate of whether DOMS is required for growth is a whole different issue, but my point is that i have never felt i have worked them well enough purely from compound exercises to grow. i think this type of program might work for someone who gains weight easily, but no so much for an ecto
Kyle Aaron
Active member
Endo/meso/ecto, all the same. That just refers to whether the person gains or loses overall weight easily, it does not have anything to do with whether they have big arms or whatever.
If you think that it is not "direct" work, try doing a military press without using your triceps, or a squat without using your hamstrings. Of course it's direct, of course it's working the muscle.
Mate, I was 1.78m and 64kg or something when I joined the Army, and had been skinny all my life. Classic ecto. All we did was compound exercises, bodyweight work - pushups, heaves, supine rows, climbing walls, burpees, jumping jacks, that sort of stuff. That and lots of food added about 10kg to my weight in three months, mostly muscle. The other 8kg I got came from lifting weights like a maniac.
Just look at the people in your gym. Look at the people who get a barbell and do bench press, military press, squats and so on. Now look at the people who do tricep kickbacks. Compare their overall size and strength and judge for yourself.
If you think that it is not "direct" work, try doing a military press without using your triceps, or a squat without using your hamstrings. Of course it's direct, of course it's working the muscle.
Mate, I was 1.78m and 64kg or something when I joined the Army, and had been skinny all my life. Classic ecto. All we did was compound exercises, bodyweight work - pushups, heaves, supine rows, climbing walls, burpees, jumping jacks, that sort of stuff. That and lots of food added about 10kg to my weight in three months, mostly muscle. The other 8kg I got came from lifting weights like a maniac.
Just look at the people in your gym. Look at the people who get a barbell and do bench press, military press, squats and so on. Now look at the people who do tricep kickbacks. Compare their overall size and strength and judge for yourself.
Kyle Aaron
Active member
Another thought...
Concerning feeling sore or feeling you've worked particular muscles, you have to remember that a lift is only as strong as the weakest muscle involved in it.
An isolation lift strictly performed uses the same muscles throughout the movement, a compound lift calls on different muscles throughout. For example in the bench press, as you push from your chest it's first pecs and then as you lockout, the tris; in the squat, from the bottom it's your glutes and hamstrings, as you pass parallel it starts to be more your quads.
So if one muscle group is relatively weaker, that'll be the muscle group that's worked the hardest. It'll tire first, and is more likely to be sore.
For example, my glutes and hamstrings are much weaker than my quads. So when I squat, I never get sore quads but often get sore glutes and hams. When I benched a lot, my pecs were weaker than my triceps, so I often got sore pecs but never got sore triceps.
Looking at the muscle pairings around, we see that it's most common that people have weaker glutes/hams than quads, weaker pecs than triceps, and weaker backs than biceps. When doing the compound lifts, the people then wonder if the stronger half of the pair is being worked at all. It is, it's just that the weaker half is so much weaker that it gets exhausted before the other half.
Eventually as you do these lifts the weaker part comes up in strength, and all parts tire and hurt equally
Concerning feeling sore or feeling you've worked particular muscles, you have to remember that a lift is only as strong as the weakest muscle involved in it.
An isolation lift strictly performed uses the same muscles throughout the movement, a compound lift calls on different muscles throughout. For example in the bench press, as you push from your chest it's first pecs and then as you lockout, the tris; in the squat, from the bottom it's your glutes and hamstrings, as you pass parallel it starts to be more your quads.
So if one muscle group is relatively weaker, that'll be the muscle group that's worked the hardest. It'll tire first, and is more likely to be sore.
For example, my glutes and hamstrings are much weaker than my quads. So when I squat, I never get sore quads but often get sore glutes and hams. When I benched a lot, my pecs were weaker than my triceps, so I often got sore pecs but never got sore triceps.
Looking at the muscle pairings around, we see that it's most common that people have weaker glutes/hams than quads, weaker pecs than triceps, and weaker backs than biceps. When doing the compound lifts, the people then wonder if the stronger half of the pair is being worked at all. It is, it's just that the weaker half is so much weaker that it gets exhausted before the other half.
Eventually as you do these lifts the weaker part comes up in strength, and all parts tire and hurt equally
katie
New member
Ahh. well in that case I know who I would rather listen to!!
Markos dedicated his most recent newsletter to Nick / NPR
PTC NEWSLETTER, Issue #
so I'm going to hazard a guess that Nick knows what he is on about.
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NotBigNuf
Guest
No ive stuck to this program, ive noticed a difference in my Chest, shoulders, quads. small amount of difference in tri's, calfs. not much of a difference in biceps... is this ok? i was also wondering if i should do anything on abs, i alreaddy have a noticable 6 pac? also there are some weeks where im able to go to the gym an extra day
Then Now
Squats: 20/25kg - 20-25kg (knee)
Military Press: 10kg - 15kg feel i can move up to 17kg as of tonight
Stiff Leg Press: 30kg - 30kg (this also hurts my knee on occasions)
Bent Rows: 17.5kg - 20kg feel i can move up to 22.5kg as of tonight
Bench Press: 20kg of wieghts + Bar - 17.5kg each size with 20 kg bar
Dips: Body Wieght - 10kg Plate
i am yet to be assesed scine? should i do one to see im ive gained?
on a seperate note, im just about out of my maxxs bulk gain and am unsure of what to get next which will help me gain wieght
Then Now
Squats: 20/25kg - 20-25kg (knee)
Military Press: 10kg - 15kg feel i can move up to 17kg as of tonight
Stiff Leg Press: 30kg - 30kg (this also hurts my knee on occasions)
Bent Rows: 17.5kg - 20kg feel i can move up to 22.5kg as of tonight
Bench Press: 20kg of wieghts + Bar - 17.5kg each size with 20 kg bar
Dips: Body Wieght - 10kg Plate
i am yet to be assesed scine? should i do one to see im ive gained?
on a seperate note, im just about out of my maxxs bulk gain and am unsure of what to get next which will help me gain wieght
J
Josh_GTiR
Guest
Defined abs comes down to diet, it is what lies underneath that counts. CORE STRENGTH! Nothing will build Core Strength like these compound excersizes. Since doing ALOT more squats and Deadlifts, I have noticed my abs stick out alot more now.
Now, is that the gain you have had in weights over the last month? Are you counting the bar in all of those weights?
You just need to lift and eat your ass off mate. Don't worry about bicep curls etc. Given the weights you are doing (no offence) you won't get much out of bicep curls. You just need to lift your ass off!
Now, is that the gain you have had in weights over the last month? Are you counting the bar in all of those weights?
You just need to lift and eat your ass off mate. Don't worry about bicep curls etc. Given the weights you are doing (no offence) you won't get much out of bicep curls. You just need to lift your ass off!
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NotBigNuf
Guest
so theres no need to do any specific work out for abs.
yeah thats the gain in wieght ive added, no i dont inc the bar except in bench press, 17.5kg each side so 17.5x2 + 20kg bar + 55kg...
should i be lifting more by now , i aim to get 8 when i first add wieght then go up when im doing 3 sets of 10 reps
no offence taken the more advice tha better
yeah thats the gain in wieght ive added, no i dont inc the bar except in bench press, 17.5kg each side so 17.5x2 + 20kg bar + 55kg...
should i be lifting more by now , i aim to get 8 when i first add wieght then go up when im doing 3 sets of 10 reps
no offence taken the more advice tha better
J
Josh_GTiR
Guest
Ah I see, I read wrong. Those are the weights you have added. I thought you were saying you were squatting 30kg and the rest.
Keep at it mate. You have a great program to make you big and strong! I wish someone made me do that when I started.
Keep at it mate. You have a great program to make you big and strong! I wish someone made me do that when I started.
Bulk protein from somewhere like Protein Direct is perfect... Then you can make your own gainer, heaps of suggestions on this forum and around the net ofr DIY gainers..
J
Josh_GTiR
Guest
AMEN to that!
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NotBigNuf
Guest
should i also do a 8 weeks on 1 week off program?
If you eat enough, you don't need supplements (based on my experience).
Skim milk is your friend. Instead of having a protein shake in 300ml of water, have 600ml of skim milk straight.
2L a day of skim milk will give you about 70g of protein, and cost you about $2 a day - a cheaper alternative to protein shakes.
The calcium you give to your bones and muscles is also invaluable.
Just eat, eat, eat, then when you're full, eat more. The diverse range of carbs, proteins and fats in a BIG diet will be more beneficial to you than having shakes - both to your body and to your wallet.
If you have a heavier wallet, that will also work your legs out more. Legs = growth
But that's just my opinion...I'm sure most of what I said is Gibberish...I'd take advice from one of the Ausbb pros as opposed to taking advice from me. I'm just telling you what has worked for me.
Eat like a whale.
Train like an ox.
Sleep like a baby.
Do the above, and you will grow
vader-nator
New member
Hi Mate,
I am new here but have to agree with everyone. Train as hard as you can. Try to beat your past workout every single time you train.
Fact is 15 KG is a hell of a lot of muscle weight to gain in a few short months.
Go to the butcher and purchase 15 kg of lean steak (hyperthetically speaking ) and lay it out on the table.
Just a visual reality check. That is a tall order of lean improvement by any standard.
Forget the scales.
Give it all youve got with training food and REST.
Scales are over rated.
Try and go up a shirt size or 2. Try to get stronger every workout. That will keep you excited, rewarded and on target.
Have fun.
I am new here but have to agree with everyone. Train as hard as you can. Try to beat your past workout every single time you train.
Fact is 15 KG is a hell of a lot of muscle weight to gain in a few short months.
Go to the butcher and purchase 15 kg of lean steak (hyperthetically speaking ) and lay it out on the table.
Just a visual reality check. That is a tall order of lean improvement by any standard.
Forget the scales.
Give it all youve got with training food and REST.
Scales are over rated.
Try and go up a shirt size or 2. Try to get stronger every workout. That will keep you excited, rewarded and on target.
Have fun.