pSARMS

Please spare me the details.
You take P.H's you need Nolvadex for PCT as a minimum. Where woulkd you intend getting that unless it's on the black marke?
A lot of those so-called P.H's are actually designer steroids and not P/H's at all. while I beleive taken properly and with correct PCT and supporting supps like liver protection etc, etc the risks can be minimized, but don't give this bullshit "You want proof"?. I've been around long enough buddy.

Anti estregens

Anit estregens like 6 oxo, Gaspari Novedex, Formadrol, Chrysin even some tribules formulas are out there too, thease are all used as PCT.

If i offended you then i do apoligise, but it seems to me that you believe what is being projected by australian goverment it terms of the governing of supplements when i have seen heard and used these so called illegal substances and there have been no side effects, or any adverse reactions to them.

What i am trying to tell you shrek is that unless you have used pro-Hormones before do not bag them, because they are better alternatives to illegal steroids which incendently are still being sold today, illegally of course.

The australian goverment is taking away our right to put what ever is benefiacial to us in our bodies, and i think it's dead wrong that decision is only our right,

And in most of the world Prohormones are legal it's only here and New Zealand that it is illegal.

Anyway dont get angry about it, i do have a right to express my opinoun whether you agree with it or not.

Those products you mentioned are not sufficient for PCT, what don't you understand? Safer than steroids? Bullshit, some of the methylated PH's are very toxic to the liver and skyrocket you cholesterol levles, and for you to say PH are "beneficial to our bodies" is absolutely ludicrous. The fact is the lopholes in the US legislation allow US supp companies to sell these compound without proper testing and most are not beneficial. yes some do work in regards to muscle growth but once again we come to the fact that then you will still need a proper PCT protocol which you cannot do in Aust legally.

Lg Sciences

Because i can not go to there link i will have to cut and paste it for you

And it's available at Knockout Nutrition in St Mary's

Formadrol EXTREME � HighLights:

* May Give Powerful Srength Gains
* May Provide Explosive Muscle Growth
* Water Retention May Be Eliminated
* May Produce Outrageous Definition
* May Increase Mental Focus And Confidence
* May Increase Sex Drive

Do you see the guys with MAN BOOBS? One of the unpleasant side effects of a really effective Testosterone cycle can be bloat, fat and �gyno��as your Testosterone converts to Estrogen.

Everybody wants the androgenic effects of Testosterone but who wants man boobs? So how do you increase your Testosterone and protect it from Estrogen conversion? Your Testosterone levels are always under attack � by age, a prohormone or anabolic cycle, medications, many things. Some of these even shut your production down completely. The last thing you need is your dwindling Testosterone turning into Estrogen.

Everyone knows Estrogen can totally destroy every gain you get from your reps and all the good your good diet does you. Every time you try to add more Testosterone with injections, legal anabolics, or natural testosterone boosters �your body tries to regain its hormonal balance. It converts your Testosterone into Estrogen. So now, instead of being primed to build muscle and strength and feeling horny as a goat, you have Estrogen running around building fat, making you lose your hair and turning your motor off.

Sometimes, your pituitary gets really confused and TURNS OFF Testosterone production COMPLETELY! PROTECT YOUR TESTOSTERONE FORMADROL EXTREME� may up your Testosterone levels, blocks Estrogen conversion and help you create your own Testosterone, naturally. It�s the most powerful Anti-Estrogen, Pro-Testosterone Complex we could find.

FORMADROL EXTREME� combines two ferocious anti-estrogen ingredients absolutely obliterate it while increasing Testosterone at the same time. We combine a suicide inhibitor that attaches itself to the Aromatase enzyme. That�s the enzyme that tells your body to convert Testosterone to Estrogen and even worse, STOP producing Testosterone. And you know what kind of effect that will have � less hard body all the way around, less libido.

So we start by destroying that enzyme which blocks Estrogen conversion, which blocks water weight, fat gains and other negative effects. So far so good. The second ingredient blocks Estrogen too AND increases Testosterone. First, it reduces the production of ANY and ALL estrogen in the body causes you to SIGNIFICANTLY increase Testosterone production, naturally. Some studies show Testosterone Levels up 500%! This same dynamite ingredient normalize your T-levels � which is particularly important if you�ve just finished a steroid or pro-hormone cycle that jacked up your Testosterone level. Without this, your body could SHUT DOWN TESTOSTERONE PRODUCTION!

You don�t have to worry about TESTOSTERONE shut down with FORMADROL EXTREME�. It may skyrocket your TESTOSTERONE naturally and safely. Clinical studies with one of the main ingredients in FORMADROL EXTREME� showed increases over 500% higher bioavailable testosterone than any other Testosterone booster available. And it did it in record time � in less than 2 weeks! If that wasn�t enough, Estradiol was slashed more than 50% on average in ALL subjects in the first week alone. And as a bonus, studies show, one of our ingredients may help increase IGF-1 levels, which is an anabolic coveted in the very hard-core anabolic circles.

Gee, you are thick. Stop pasting shit. I have read these things aver and over. Of course the supp companiers are going t say all these good things afterall they are trying to make money. Formadrol is not a PH and wll not be sufficient on a proper PH cycle, understand? Supp companies cannot sell tamoxifen or clomid so they sell these type of products to make you think you are getting a proper pct when infact you are not. Formadrol would be better as a stnd alone product if you have naturally low test levels it may increase them slightly.

Is this filtering through or you gonna paste another product description?

Hey look buddy i have used these compounds and they do work have you had a look at the list of ingridients to start with

or are you just mouthing off because you have used no evidence to support your arguments

27mg
Androstan-3-alpha-ol-17-one
Androstan-3-beta-ol-17-one

thease are chemicals my friend and they jack up production of your test levels and are very similar to Nolvedex, go and do your homework before you answer.

hahahahahahahah WTf is Nolvedex, there is no such product? on the other hand Nolvadex (tamoxifen citrate) is what guys who use steroids always go for because it brings the boys back quickly, they do not use Andostan crap. PH will shut you down just as steroids do thus the need for proper PCT are you understanding this yet?
You are a noob and a tosspot and I will end this here.

It's OK

Hey look man i have tried to be nice about this but unfortunatly you have never used pro-hormones in your entire life so i am really wasting my time with you

It's obvious to me you are not getting it, anyway good luck with the forum and all.

PCT for steroids is useally Clomid or Nolvedex

PCT for Pro Hormones are sometimes used with

Androstan
3a Hydroxyetiochollan 17 one ene
Dadaizin

LOL. Where did I say I have not used PH? Truth is I have.
This is the last time I explain it.
Steroids = Shutdown of natural testosterone production.
Pro-hormones = Shutdown of natural production.
No difference. OK?

You body does not know weather it was a steroid or a PH that cased production to shutdown all it knows that it has exogenous testosteron floating around so it does not need to produce anymore. Once you stop steroid or PH it takes time for natural test to kick in and the best and most effective way is with Tamoxifen Citrate (Nolvadex). So you see it does not matter weahter it is a steroid or PH, shutdown is shutdown regardless.
Now these supp companies realise this but can't sell Tamoxifen OTC so they come up with these other forms of PCT but truth be known they are not effective enough to bring the boys back quick enough hence prolonged shutdown will be experience and it sever cases medical attention is warranted in which case the Dr will prescribe, you guessed it Nolvadex.
The experienced guys in the US know this and they are lucky enough to be able to purchase Nolvadex as a research chemical in liquid form and the supp companiy reps know this and will quite often tell these guys to do so.
Game over.

Pro hormones vs Illegal Steroids

You know you always tend to group Pro- hormones with illegal steroids and i think this is where you are dead wrong want to know why ????

Illegal Steroids will make you gain 10-15lbs in two weeks, BUT they are gains that you are most likely to lose since your body has not adjusted to the extra size. Staying on Steroids for more than two weeks isn’t advisable since raised liver enzymes are not something you want to have for long cycles. Totally agree with you on that one, this is where you will need PCT and this where i would say that using HCG combined with Nolvedex would help recover the young boys down there so to speak i have also noticed you never brought up HCG which is the best for getting the Gonads down there going

Choosing a Pro Hormone that puts on size at a slower rate is actually a much better idea in my opinion. Gains with the DSHEA compliant pro-hormones can range from 7-17 lbs in a month. Certainly they are much slower, but they are gains that you can actually maintain and keep. This is actually a huge advantage since your body wants to be in a state of homeostasis whenever possible. Homeostasis is basically maintaining what you’ve been and resisting change. Only slow and steady changes in your body are permanent so although the lure of 15lbs in two weeks is nice and I have done it myself, the only thing that really made any difference in my physique was continual slow changes. That is why doctors recommend slow weight loss to crash diets and long term hormone use vs. quick cycles that cause you to gain tons of muscle in a short amount of time.

Does this make sence to you because it is making perfect sence to me you know what i mean

YOU DONT NEED SUCH HARSH DRUGS LIKE NOLVEDEX OR CLOMID TO RECOVER FROM PRO_HORMONE USE AS THE BODY DOES NOT COMPLETLY SHUT DOWN IT"S OWN PRODUCTION AS A MATTER OF FACT IT CAN PROVIDE RAW MATERIALS TO PRODUCE IT"S OWN THAT"S WHY

SUPPLEMENT COMPANIES BRING OUT THERE OWN PCT BECAUSE THEY DO WORK IF THEY DID NOT WORK THEN WHY ARE THEY STILL SELLING THEM AT SUCH HIGH VOLUMES ??????????????????????????????

These products have been on the market for over 15 years, and are still going strong, i have even noticed them down here aswell.

but honestly speaking this will be my last post here i am done with talking to people who think they know what they are talking about in actual fact they would rather mouth off then allow people to speak their minds that's what forums are all about aren't they.

good luck for the future buddy and try stay away from clomid and Nolvedex it's better to get on HCG, trust me it works better.

GAME SET AND MATCH

10-16lbs in 2 weeks are you for real. Mate you clearly have no idea.
As for them being on the market for 15 years? Hello The US Govermant banned P.H a few years back but only through loophole have supp companies come out with these new types of compounds.
I will agree HCG is best fr bring the boys back but they are injectable and 99% of guys who use tabs do so because they don't want to inject.

and they say im a troll sheesh

Not real !

Have you ever thought that maybe some of the gear that is going around is not the real thing ?????

Maybe a lesser more weaker steroid !!! than what is on the label

Also depends what your stacking it with or diet can play a huge role aswell.

You know it has happened to some of my mates.

What kind of crazy muscle monsters need all this crap to gain? How far can you go on diet alone? Whats the deal anyway?

i have no idea why people put this stuff in their bodies to begin with. Body building is mainly about health/fitness/joy of exercising and bettering yourselves.
prohormone suppliments are plain rubbish.
you will gain size in time with patience and consistent training. This suppliments are targeted for guys that have no juice in their balls n cant lift.

anavar02 said:

a gained 40kgs on to by bench and 50kgs on to my squat and deadlift just by chnging my diet all in just 2/mnths natural aswell

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Please do elaborate. Also, a photo of before and after would be appreciated. Thank you.


Fadi.

anavar02 said:

diet is very important 60%deit and only 40% training belive it or not but its true.

Click to expand...

Both are equally important.


Fadi.

I think you are about 18 months late to answer Zayd question that's if he is still on the forum

Shrek said:

Just as i thought. It's just hype buddy. I wouldn't bother. Not sure how old you are but you are better off with an AI, like Gaspari - Novedex XT or 6-Oxo.

Click to expand...

Just the fat that they have tried to take off the name nolvadex spells bullshit on gaspari to me..

n ah, this stuff is not too bad for an OTC supp., although the name does reek of copying the prescription drug Nolvadex as you say.