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over training

yes, but that is the point, the balance between intensity and volume has to be right; many supposed elite trainers just do what they want and have little regard for the novice athlete and how he was improving in the first place.

I know you guys don't get it, but it is very easy to do too much training, especially for power athletes.
 
Fadi said:
I've written a full article on this topic and it's available on this forum. The problem that I see is the terminology that is been used or not used in this instance to solve this seemingly confusing scenario. I'll make it clear...

1. Overtraining....yes every Tom Dick and Jane talks about it
2. Under-recovering...as above
3. Over-reaching...hardly anyone talks or knows about it.

For the average trainee, I do not believe in a state of overtraining, but I do believe in a state of under-recovering. That is to say, what one does in the gym can not be hard enough to be called overtraining (I'll explain why in a second). However, what one does not do once they leave the gym, can and does lead to under-recovering, which in turn causes one to not progress as they should, had they ticked all the boxes that go to make one recover properly, namely rest and sleep, nutrition/enough calories and so on and so forth.

Getting back to the overtraining bit and why I consider it near impossible for the average trainee to experience it, based on his gym workout. The main reason for this phenomenon lies with human psychology and the way it affects our physical exertion in that gym. If you truly believe that you're giving it your best during your gym workouts, I'm here to argue the point that you're not. Mmm, so how would I know when I'm giving it my best and what is it that is needed for me to give it my best? In two words: external influence. That is what you need, that is what everyone needs to guarantee true maximum effort.

And that's precisely where over-reaching (and therefore true overtraining if you like) comes in. Confused? No need to be. Think of it this way: one action is deliberate and very much calculated (that is the over-reaching) you were able to attain thanks to that external influence, whilst the other state (that your average trainee in the gym calls overtraining), is no more than some serious lack of under-recovering. A fight with your girlfriend or your boss at work can reduce your ability to recover. It doesn't take much, hence I've always emphasised the positive psychology of an athlete's mind playing a huge part in his ability to make progress. Some athletes are better managers of their stress levels, and know how to handle and control such external and potentially negative influences.

Here's the small article I've written on the subject: Overtraining or under-recovering?
Click to expand...

not to be nit picky fad but rest is not going to facilitate recovery it's sleep.
more often than not a dud does a half arsed workout and then they crash on the coach with a bag of chips and coke to watch the Telly for the rest of the time thinking its recovery instead of going out and mowing the lawn or chopping down a tree or delivering a baby.
all one needs is proper sleep and sound nutrition which is repeated again and again on this forum, we must keep it simple, because it is.
 
We need to be more flexible with our thinking and approaches when dealing with the subject of over training and recovery. Most still focus on a workout to workout basis, when there's really no need or a rule (from a physiological view point) that demands such an approach. Please note that I am not saying that an approach of ensuring recovery post each and every workout is somehow bad or anything negative. What I am saying however is that an athlete can go all out for a sequence of (say) three weeks, followed by one week of backing off, allowing for (not only maximum recovery), but also maximum super-compensation. In other words, if you are the type of bodybuilder who likes to get the tape measure out more often than not to measure your muscles' girth, you'd be well advised to save that ritual to the end of the 4th week (as per the example I've given above).

Basically what I'm referring to here is the SAID vs Variation principle, or the classical periodisation principle. SAID stands for “Specific Adaptation to Imposed Demands” and states that “adaptation to a stressor is specific to that stressor”. Without really getting into here, you'd all agree that if you want to excel in swimming, there's no escaping the fact that you need to put in the mileage in the pool. Similarly (and from another thread on Ausbb re the rugby league tackle), I've noticed some members arguing about the validity of the power clean as an exercise that would benefit such a rugby move. In fact, the power clean can help you become a very powerful athlete, however in my opinion, it's not specific enough to really get the job done (especially since a tackle has its many variations, some subtle and some not so subtle), where everyone knows a power clean follows one (and only one) path or line of power.

Is there one exercise that would best tackle the rugby tackle? Yes and no. There is, but it's not only one exercise, but as many exercises as there are variation of a tackle. So what is it. The tackle itself, but not without a load. What load? Read this if you haven't already done so: Optimal load vs maximum load

Digressed? Yes I have digressed. Sorry about that.
 
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I find it almost silly that most people are not employing a periodization strategy for thier training, being that almost everyone in the business of blogging etc has had an article on this. It applies to all training for all sports, most especially bodybuilding, powerlifting and weightlifting.

Tim.
 
Tim, but big change, especially in track, is much shorter cycles almost year round. That is why many athletes now run fast throughout season.
 
spartacus said:
Tim, but big change, especially in track, is much shorter cycles almost year round. That is why many athletes now run fast throughout season.
Click to expand...
Yeah i dont know anything about track athletes.

Alot of powerlifters are lifting heavy year round' also these days.

Im sure they still periodize the training (athletics) in terms of overall avergae intensity and total training volume.

Tim.
 
spartacus said:
sorry fadi, you are wrong.
Click to expand...
No need for sorry mate, that's your opinion and I very much welcome it, even though I disagree with it.

Goosey said:
not to be nit picky fad but rest is not going to facilitate recovery it's sleep.
more often than not a dud does a half arsed workout and then they crash on the coach with a bag of chips and coke to watch the Telly for the rest of the time thinking its recovery instead of going out and mowing the lawn or chopping down a tree or delivering a baby.
all one needs is proper sleep and sound nutrition which is repeated again and again on this forum, we must keep it simple, because it is.
Click to expand...
I'm sure I've mentioned sleep. We need both, rest and sleep Andy. We can make this extremely complicated by talking about the difference between a restful sleep and one that is not. We can talk abut a physical rest that is positive and one that is not.

Now allow me to nick pick for a second here. For someone to crash on the couch with a bag of chips and a can of coke could serve to be one of the ultimate comfort for that person. You may substitute that bag of chips and can of coke for a tub of ice cream if you like, and the mental effect (from serotonin) would go towards serving that lifter's muscle well when it comes to true tranquility and relaxation. So a good diet, coupled with some comfort food can and does do wonders when you add it to sleep, leading to a much better recovery than if that same person was to feel restricted or deprived in anyway.

I've said this a million times on this forum already: the athlete's psychological health plays a huge role in the way he trains as well as in the way he recovers from such training.

I'll conclude by saying that sleep in and of itself is not going to help an athlete recover, it's the quality of that sleep that one ought to focus on. Thank you.
 
Goosey said:
not to be nit picky fad but rest is not going to facilitate recovery it's sleep.
more often than not a dud does a half arsed workout and then they crash on the coach with a bag of chips and coke to watch the Telly for the rest of the time thinking its recovery instead of going out and mowing the lawn or chopping down a tree or delivering a baby.
all one needs is proper sleep and sound nutrition which is repeated again and again on this forum, we must keep it simple, because it is.
Click to expand...

I'm not quite following. Are you talking about active recovery here? Chips and coke aside are you saying recovery will be quicker or more effective chopping down trees (for example) than lying on the couch?

We should remember, the human body is a magnificent thing. It is always 'recovering' (or trying to) but exertion and recovery have an inverse relationship after a point. If you're pushing the envelope some active recovery may be beneficial (in terms of blood flow, reducing soreness, maintaining flexibility etc.) but past a certain point continued activity will impact your recuperation.

In before some twat says 'no-one here trains hard enough to have to ever worry about that'.
 
Fadi said:
No need for sorry mate, that's your opinion and I very much welcome it, even though I disagree with it.

I'm sure I've mentioned sleep. We need both, rest and sleep Andy. We can make this extremely complicated by talking about the difference between a restful sleep and one that is not. We can talk abut a physical rest that is positive and one that is not.

Now allow me to nick pick for a second here. For someone to crash on the couch with a bag of chips and a can of coke could serve to be one of the ultimate comfort for that person. You may substitute that bag of chips and can of coke for a tub of ice cream if you like, and the mental effect (from serotonin) would go towards serving that lifter's muscle well when it comes to true tranquility and relaxation. So a good diet, coupled with some comfort food can and does do wonders when you add it to sleep, leading to a much better recovery than if that same person was to feel restricted or deprived in anyway.

I've said this a million times on this forum already: the athlete's psychological health plays a huge role in the way he trains as well as in the way he recovers from such training.

I'll conclude by saying that sleep in and of itself is not going to help an athlete recover, it's the quality of that sleep that one ought to focus on. Thank you.
Click to expand...


Your opinion is welcome, however I disagree, rest is needed between exertion, sleep is required for rebuilding, and that's not just muscle.
 
Shrek said:
I train hard. ?
Click to expand...

Dis' you bro?

bicep.JPG
 
Goosey said:
Your opinion is welcome, however I disagree, rest is needed between exertion, sleep is required for rebuilding, and that's not just muscle.
Click to expand...
Andy, if you wish to disagree with me, I have no problem with that. But please let's make sure we're discussing the same thing here. First you talk about recovery, now you're talking about rebuilding. No one is arguing that one needs sleep to rebuild, I certainly wasn't.
 
Fadi said:
Andy, if you wish to disagree with me, I have no problem with that. But please let's make sure we're discussing the same thing here. First you talk about recovery, now you're talking about rebuilding. No one is arguing that one needs sleep to rebuild, I certainly wasn't.
Click to expand...

The topic is overtraining.
 
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