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Stimulate or Annihilate?

I think that as with everything we are all different and a person whom has good awareness of themselves is going to have a great head start, is that learned or genetics.

to use the analogy lifting weights with the school education process is the wrong track to go down.
and for the purpose of being healthy and mobile with a decent amount of muscle needs very little thought.

But having said all that there is a very bad wave of general information given out and if One spent a lot of time on the Internet you’d agree that maybe spending a lot of time of it would benefit a lot.

On the subject of instincts; if we followed our instincts we happily sit on a couch and do nothing, to try and avoid any type of pain and effort is high on the agenda.
 
spartacus said:
i have trained with many champs, very few of them busted their balls. but each to their own.
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Very few “champs” need to, They in a sense quite lazy.
But more often than not (like a gorilla) a very big individual only needs a small amount of very hard exercise to stimulate a response, compared to the general population, there are also individuals who are very thin that can withstand a lot of time through the week exercising while the next dudewith the same makeup is opposite.

as I said it’s easy to tan an individual because you see the color of his skin....
 
I agree with [MENTION=895]Shrek[/MENTION], constant stimulation with occasional annihilation

constantly hitting failure not good for gains

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this is what I have been saying for thirty years.

These data seem to indicate that short term resistance training using a moderate volume of repetitions not to failure enables a favorable environment for achieving greater enhancements in strength, muscle power, and rowing performance compared with higher training volumes of repetitions to failure. Therefore, our results suggest that to improve performance in sports with great demands of both muscle strength and aerobic endurance, a combined program of endurance and resistance exercise characterized by not training to repetition failure and performing only a moderate number of repetitions in each training session may be an effective and safe option for highly trained athletes.
 
Goosey said:
Yeah, no doubt “smashing them hard” is really the only way to stimulate some sort of reaction.

My take on this annihilation is akin to sitting under the sun to get a tan.
and we all know how to get the bronzed Aussie look.

Some need to work a little harder at getting it due to the color of skin and through trial and error we work it out.

Spend the right amount of time under the and you don’t get sunburnt, too much and the cells in the skin are unable to cope.
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Yeah, think I know what you mean, self awareness, but that takes time, usually years until it's 60% figured out and 40% guesswork.

speaking of tanning, this Arizona sun is nice, it's a dry climate and after 2 weeks none of us use sunscreen anymore, don't burn anymore, just keep getting browner and browner.
If I set by the pool every day for 5 weeks with no sunblock in melb I'd be burned to a morone colour and would have pealed twice by now. But this sun doesn't do that, just turns you a nice deep brown colour, my skin has never looked smoother, love the dry climate, good for the whole body.
 
spartacus said:
this is what I have been saying for thirty years.

These data seem to indicate that short term resistance training using a moderate volume of repetitions not to failure enables a favorable environment for achieving greater enhancements in strength, muscle power, and rowing performance compared with higher training volumes of repetitions to failure. Therefore, our results suggest that to improve performance in sports with great demands of both muscle strength and aerobic endurance, a combined program of endurance and resistance exercise characterized by not training to repetition failure and performing only a moderate number of repetitions in each training session may be an effective and safe option for highly trained athletes.
Click to expand...

What if one is only interested is muscle size and strength and performance being only the byproducts?
 
Grunta said:
What if one is only interested is muscle size and strength and performance being only the byproducts?
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still think training should be similar, even just for muscle size as strong relationship with strength. even gary lewer, someone who trained light, also increased weights albeit with precise form.

in my case, I only achieved best lifts of bench press 148kg (173kg on drugs), power clean 135kg (155kg on gear) at a rather skinny 98kg (15% fat) at 186cm, but I reckon my biggest handicap was not persisting and staying too light. I believe my training was aided by mostly training on moderate weights with short rests.

not saying greater intensity does not work; it clearly does within reason of lighter sessions also. just believe that you can go a long way with moderate weights with much less frequent all out sets.

for myself, when I have trained with higher intensity for a significant period, I always went backwards.

I have also argued many ways to skin a cat, but each way must suit individual. nevertheless, pretty confident my way works with most people. when you have short rests for 3-4 sets, and use strict form, it is quite hard to train even with 65% of your max.

I have seen many critics of gary lewer change their minds after they did a training session with him; one was a 230kg bench presser.

Very high intensity can be expressed in many ways, but the higher use of moderate weights is going to be less detrimental over time in terms of helping one to avoid a catabolic state as too much all-out lifting uses much more adrenalin.
 
There is a system called; 10,8,6 where the trainee would load the bar heavy enough in each set to reach MMF, this is as old as dirt and worked for many, 21’s is another example.

i do believe that for squatting multiple sets are desirable, some very well know people I know would go to mmf frequently but that was for a 20 rep set.
the trainee would go until he could not lift it and leave it sitting on the supports of the squat rack.

for a lot of people that’s not desirable but he/they did all there lives and it was nothing to them.

”failure” I’d like to see videos of the subjects training to see the intensity of effort.
to me, failure or MMF as I was taught means something specific and to be truly metabolic it needs to be, brutal, intense and every exercise needs to be performed perfectly and to MMF with minimal waiting between exercises, the workouts are short and they need to be to maintain the intensity of work.

i can’t comment on that study Because I cannot see what they actually did.

to finish most trainees do not understand the this type of workout takes a while to adapt to, one need to become conditioned to it.
 
Grunta said:
Yeah, think I know what you mean, self awareness, but that takes time, usually years until it's 60% figured out and 40% guesswork.

speaking of tanning, this Arizona sun is nice, it's a dry climate and after 2 weeks none of us use sunscreen anymore, don't burn anymore, just keep getting browner and browner.
If I set by the pool every day for 5 weeks with no sunblock in melb I'd be burned to a morone colour and would have pealed twice by now. But this sun doesn't do that, just turns you a nice deep brown colour, my skin has never looked smoother, love the dry climate, good for the whole body.
Click to expand...

Dont take me literally, I’m meaning a ghost white dude wanting a tan.

and I know what you mean about OS compared to here, specially in the tropical climate the moist climate just seems to maintain a nice sheen in the skin, I’ll look like an abo after 4 weeks but my skin is quite olive.
 
Goosey said:
Dont take me literally, I’m meaning a ghost white dude wanting a tan.

and I know what you mean about OS compared to here, specially in the tropical climate the moist climate just seems to maintain a nice sheen in the skin, I’ll look like an abo after 4 weeks but my skin is quite olive.
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My brother on the other hand is Lilly white and would always get burnt
 
Goosey said:
My brother on the other hand is Lilly white and would always get burnt
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We all look abo now after 7 weeks. Never been before to a place where you just don't see clouds.
yeah, I know what you mean, didn't take it too literally, just got me thinking.

I don't think there will ever will be a black and white success manual to BBing.

Only way to do it would be to get identical quadripplets and subject them to four different methods of training with identical diet and rest / activity periods and monitor them like lab rats. See which of the 4 responds best and write a book on it.

so..........who's got a test tube?
 
Grunta said:
We all look abo now after 7 weeks. Never been before to a place where you just don't see clouds.
yeah, I know what you mean, didn't take it too literally, just got me thinking.

I don't think there will ever will be a black and white success manual to BBing.

Only way to do it would be to get identical quadripplets and subject them to four different methods of training with identical diet and rest / activity periods and monitor them like lab rats. See which of the 4 responds best and write a book on it.

so..........who's got a test tube?
Click to expand...

its been proven that even twins are not a good example due to the subtle differences.

id say test yourself
training 4 differing methods over four years in between completely de-training but even in those four years there will be discrepancies due to age.

to all that I say just get your dead arse under the bar and squat ffs.
 
Goosey said:
The trouble with any study is the vague reports, most will only see what they want to to back their belief
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really? there is a whole lot of recent exercise literature out now that shows that many champions in a lot of sports only train with high intensity 20% of time and the rest under 80%.

while such studies focus on mainstream sports of longer duration than weightlifting, I believe the situation would be no different for strength.

do you go on one study? no, you read lots and make your own observations.
 
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