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  Click here to go to the first staff post in this thread.   Thread: How Much Protein Do We Need (How many Protein Shakes per Day)??

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    Default How Much Protein Do We Need (How many Protein Shakes per Day)??

    The RDA for protein intake is 0.8 grams per kilo of lean body mass. Sellers of protein powder seem to promote to double that intake with little to no real evidence to support this number.

    I really don't believe any gym goer, really needs to greatly exceed 0.8 grams of protein.

    The RDA would translate to a person with a lean body weight of 100kg be looking at 80 grams of protein a day.

    Considering that 100grams of chicken contains 27 grams of protein and 100 grams of beef contains around 26 grams of protein (and all other meats are about the same), a 300gram serve of pretty much any meat will cover a 100kg man for his daily protein and amino acid needs.

    Now we are talking a 100kg lean body mass man here, not many people are 100kg lean body mass, I regularly see 50kg women and 70kg men chugging down several protein drinks a day. A 50kg women is looking at needing around 40 grams a day (150 grams of meat) and a 70kg man around 56 grams a day (250 grams of meat).

    Even if you want to exceed that number by a bit 'just to be sure' anyone eating a normal diet (not vegan or similar) will easily meet any protein needs they may have and in most cases well exceed those needs without any need for supplementary protein concoctions.

    Some High Protein foods (Animal Based)
    Chicken/Pork/Beef - 25-27g per 100g
    Tuna - 30g per 100g
    Whole eggs - 13g per 100g (not really that high)
    Salmon 20g per 100g

    Non animal based:
    Lentils 9g per 100g
    Wall Nuts 15g per 100g (higher than eggs)
    Tofu 8 grams per 100g
    Spinach 3g per 100g
    Peas 5g per 100g
    Sprouts 4g per 100g
    Mushrooms 3g per 100g
    Kale 4.5g per 100g
    Potato 2g per 100g

    Looking at the above short list of foods containing protein lets look at a basic meal, if dinner was a 200-300g piece of meat with some mushrooms, potatoes, peas, or spinach the daily protein needs of a 100kg person would be well and truly met with dinner alone.

    That's before you even consider breakfast and lunch if you had an egg or two for breakfast and a tin of tuna on toast for lunch you would even be close to meeting the supposedly ideal Bodybuilding protein requirement of 1.5-2 grams per kilo day.

    Let the discussion begin and let's see all the 'I need my shake or I will waste away posts'
    Last edited by Big Mick; 26-07-2017 at 09:48 AM. Reason: correct spelling
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    1.8-2.2gm/kg is the genral consensus amongst protein researchers.
    .8gm per kg of LBM would not be enough for me i do not beleive. That would be like 64gms. Per day. Not gunna cut it IMO.

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    A couple of points where I will disagree...
    1) 0.8g/kg by the RDA is their number to simply maintain your current mass. They're not interested in promoting muscle growth, which surely requires a higher than normal intake?
    2) That's for the average male which means an average activity level. I would say resistance training 3-7 days per week, plus cardio is higher than average, so again, surely a higher than average intake is required even for maintenance? They also say that the leaner the body mass the higher the protein intake should be.
    3) The RDA also recommends 130g of carbs for the average adult (weight, sex etc don't play a role apparently), do you agree with this number even for a 100kg male?

    Playing around with total cals based on the RDA, only 320 (0.8 x 100 x 4) come from protein and 520 (130 x 4) from carbs. The RDA for fat is 20-35% of total cals.
    A 100kg male needs around 2700 cals just to maintain that weight. Take out the 840 from protein and carbs and you're left with 1860 or 68% of the diet that is supposed to come from fats? The numbers just don't stack up if you go solely on RDA requirements, they contradict themselves

    The balancing act comes in with eating "proper" meals and not exceeding calories or grams of carbs & fats just to get the protein in. A supplement can assist with this as they can be high in one area but low in others. Just the same as supplementing protein, you can also supplement carbs and fats. Look at people that use fish oil or add dextrose to their shakes. Are these unnecessary just like protein powder if you can get it from other sources?
    Last edited by White_Lie; 26-07-2017 at 10:23 AM.
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    Active Member spartacus has made a donation to the forum!

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    a couple of studies suggest 1.7 grams per kg for those seeking to build muscle and athletes. I have them in my book, but rather busy at moment to look them up
    I can't wait for Kevin Aitken to join World Powerlifting.


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    I'm currently losing weight at 1kg a week for the last 11 weeks. If all I ate in my calorie allowances was the Helgas bread I like, I would be getting over 160g of protein from that alone. Lol. Of course I'm not only eating bread. Add meat in there and hitting and likely going way over protein requirements are no problem.

    People have been suckered in by the supp compaines marketing. I also think supps are part of just being a gym rat and that culture. People feel special taking them, like they are better than the average joe who doesn't supp his diet. Also it's a lot easier to suck back a protein shake and convince yourself that you making gains than get out there and do the hard work.


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    QUOTE=White_Lie;739641]A couple of points where I will disagree...
    1) 0.8g/kg by the RDA is their number to simply maintain your current mass. They're not interested in promoting muscle growth, which surely requires a higher than normal intake?[/QUOTE]

    You missed my point I think, crunch some numbers and see how much protein you would actually consume in a day, it would well exceed .8 of a gram without any additional protein shakes


    Quote Originally Posted by White_Lie View Post
    2) That's for the average male which means an average activity level. I would say resistance training 3-7 days per week, plus cardio is higher than average, so again, surely a higher than average intake is required even for maintenance? They also say that the leaner the body mass the higher the protein intake should be.
    Read my reply to your first question.


    Quote Originally Posted by White_Lie View Post
    3) The RDA also recommends 130g of carbs for the average adult (weight, sex etc don't play a role apparently), do you agree with this number even for a 100kg male?
    But your statement confuses what average is, a 100kg male is not average so would not be consuming an average amount of carbs. According to surveys the average Australian male is somewhere around the 85kg mark, so I would guess the 130g of carbs you refer to in your question would relate to the 85kg male.

    But you must also consider that carbs are not essential, there is no such thing as essential carbs, there is no carb requirement that you must consume for a healthy lifestyle, you can happily exist with no carbs, the same can't be said for protein or fats though.

    Personally I don't generally monitor my carb intake, I try and keep carbs as low as possible but I am not anal about not eating carbs, I normally don't consume large amounts of carbs though. I generally do not eat bread or only do so rarely may be the odd sandwich when I am am out and about. The $2.50 Bunnings sausage sandwich two Sundays ago was the last time I had bread, it's not something I eat on a daily basis as part of my normal diet, I will have rice when the meal I am having requires it (had curry last night so I had rice).


    Quote Originally Posted by White_Lie View Post
    Playing around with total cals based on the RDA, only 320 (0.8 x 100 x 4) come from protein and 520 (130 x 4) from carbs. The RDA for fat is 20-35% of total cals.
    A 100kg male needs around 2700 cals just to maintain that weight. Take out the 840 from protein and carbs and you're left with 1860 or 68% of the diet that is supposed to come from fats? The numbers just don't stack up if you go solely on RDA requirements, they contradict themselves
    You need to compare apples with apples, you are confusing yourself on the term average. Eating is not that difficult, have your daily protein intake and fat intake and then eat the rest of your calories with whatever you like, Most people easily meed their protein demands as outlines earlier, if you eat 300 grams of meat/fish etc and a few veggies you are covered especially if you don't weigh 100kg. 300g is not a lot.

    Quote Originally Posted by White_Lie View Post
    The balancing act comes in with eating "proper" meals and not exceeding calories or grams of carbs & fats just to get the protein in. A supplement can assist with this as they can be high in one area but low in others. Just the same as supplementing protein, you can also supplement carbs and fats. Look at people that use fish oil or add dextrose to their shakes. Are these unnecessary just like protein powder if you can get it from other sources?
    Most definitely not required, I know people use dextrose to spike insulin and there are other specific reasons for doing so which are part of a whole 'system' of eating (carb back loading etc) which is fine if that is what they are following (I tried it a while back and it does appear to have some benefits) but I doubt there is a need for the avaerage trainer eating normally to 'supplement' with dextrose as they are having a dextrose deficiency.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bazza20 View Post
    I'm currently losing weight at 1kg a week for the last 11 weeks. If all I ate in my calorie allowances was the Helgas bread I like, I would be getting over 160g of protein from that alone. Lol. Of course I'm not only eating bread. Add meat in there and hitting and likely going way over protein requirements are no problem.

    People have been suckered in by the supp compaines marketing. I also think supps are part of just being a gym rat and that culture. People feel special taking them, like they are better than the average joe who doesn't supp his diet. Also it's a lot easier to suck back a protein shake and convince yourself that you making gains than get out there and do the hard work.
    I think the single best post you have made on this forum in the past few years, not just because it somewhat agrees with my view point but also because it is total common sense and sums up in a few short concise lines what would take me pages of writing to try and explain.
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    Quote Originally Posted by White_Lie View Post
    A couple of points where I will disagree...
    1) 0.8g/kg by the RDA is their number to simply maintain your current mass. They're not interested in promoting muscle growth, which surely requires a higher than normal intake?
    You missed my point I think, crunch some numbers and see how much protein you would actually consume in a day, it would well exceed .8 of a gram without any additional protein shakes

    Quote Originally Posted by White_Lie View Post
    2) That's for the average male which means an average activity level. I would say resistance training 3-7 days per week, plus cardio is higher than average, so again, surely a higher than average intake is required even for maintenance? They also say that the leaner the body mass the higher the protein intake should be.
    Read my reply to your first question.

    Quote Originally Posted by White_Lie View Post
    3) The RDA also recommends 130g of carbs for the average adult (weight, sex etc don't play a role apparently), do you agree with this number even for a 100kg male?
    But your statement confuses what average is, a 100kg male is not average so would not be consuming an average amount of carbs. According to surveys the average Australian male is somewhere around the 85kg mark, so I would guess the 130g of carbs you refer to in your question would relate to the 85kg male.

    But you must also consider that carbs are not essential, there is no such thing as essential carbs, there is no carb requirement that you must consume for a healthy lifestyle, you can happily exist with no carbs, the same can't be said for protein or fats though.

    Personally I don't generally monitor my carb intake, I try and keep carbs as low as possible but I am not anal about not eating carbs, I normally don't consume large amounts of carbs though. I generally do not eat bread or only do so rarely may be the odd sandwich when I am am out and about. The $2.50 Bunnings sausage sandwich two Sundays ago was the last time I had bread, it's not something I eat on a daily basis as part of my normal diet, I will have rice when the meal I am having requires it (had curry last night so I had rice).


    Quote Originally Posted by White_Lie View Post
    Playing around with total cals based on the RDA, only 320 (0.8 x 100 x 4) come from protein and 520 (130 x 4) from carbs. The RDA for fat is 20-35% of total cals.
    A 100kg male needs around 2700 cals just to maintain that weight. Take out the 840 from protein and carbs and you're left with 1860 or 68% of the diet that is supposed to come from fats? The numbers just don't stack up if you go solely on RDA requirements, they contradict themselves
    You need to compare apples with apples, you are confusing yourself on the term average. Eating is not that difficult, have your daily protein intake and fat intake and then eat the rest of your calories with whatever you like, Most people easily meed their protein demands as outlines earlier, if you eat 300 grams of meat/fish etc and a few veggies you are covered especially if you don't weigh 100kg. 300g is not a lot.

    Quote Originally Posted by White_Lie View Post
    The balancing act comes in with eating "proper" meals and not exceeding calories or grams of carbs & fats just to get the protein in. A supplement can assist with this as they can be high in one area but low in others. Just the same as supplementing protein, you can also supplement carbs and fats. Look at people that use fish oil or add dextrose to their shakes. Are these unnecessary just like protein powder if you can get it from other sources?
    Most definitely not required, I know people use dextrose to spike insulin and there are other specific reasons for doing so which are part of a whole 'system' of eating (carb back loading etc) which is fine if that is what they are following (I tried it a while back and it does appear to have some benefits) but I doubt there is a need for the avaerage trainer eating normally to 'supplement' with dextrose as they are having a dextrose deficiency.
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    I dont get my numbers from any supp companies.

    I get them from key research people in the field of sports nutrition.

    Im currently eating an average of 215gm per day. 46gm comes from powder in my morning smoothie which is all kinds of epic. Haha.

    Losing on average 0.4kg per week.

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    The case for protein powders is they can work out cheaper per gram of protein than meat. Roughly similar cost per g protein to eggs, milk, cheese. So the argument is they could substitute the meat protein in the diet to reduce cost but no one does that. They throw it on top so actually spending more because protein is usually the most expensive macro in the diet.

    End of the day I don't care what anyone here does. Eat how you want and feel works for you but bit of fun here actually having a BBing discussion for once.


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