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Muhammad Ali Knocked Trump’s Muslim Ban Before He Died

Darkoz said:
Typical again , got nothing intelligent to say, then post a meme
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68691371.jpg
 
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Fadi said:
Interesting, I've never heard or experienced that one before. Perhaps you're right; but on a personal level and from what I know based on an extreme minority of 500,000 Muslims living here in Oz, it's not something I or my family have ever heard of or experienced.
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"Because I as a Muslim can not wait to see both the hypocrite US and its devilish child Saudi Arabia (and the surrounding gulf states) show their true colours for the rest of the world to see,..."

"Arabs..., I'd much rather say the Muslim world does not like Saudi Arabia period!..."

Were'nt the above quotes from you?
 
Darkoz said:
I wonder do you think things will be better when/if that happens, not just for the Middle East but also better for the rest of the world?
Do you think that the Muslim countries will stop fighting each other and stop criticsing and attacking western countries.
And do think that then those muslim countries will keep their religious beliefs to themselves?
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There was a time (before 1914) when there was no borders between what we now know as Muslim countries. We need to unite as Muslims first and foremost, not countries. And if that is not possible for whatever reason, then Islam and the brotherhood it brings within the Muslim world ought to be the uniting factor amongst those countries.

The west has nothing to fear from Islam as you yourself (on this forum) have never had anything to fear from me for being a Muslim. I once asked you about your knowledge of Islam and you were honest enough to admit ignorance. When I asked (not forced) to share my knowledge about Islam with you, you did not want it. I respected your wish and moved on, and here we are still brothers in humanity (I hope).

Now you may wish to point out the fanatics and extremist of my faith to me, and I won't argue with you there. However you being the sensible person that you are, would agree with me that each and every faith and community (atheists included) have there black sheep to contend with.
 
the key issue for western countries is to make sure that religion has little influence on the secular state.
 
spartacus said:
the key issue for western countries is to make sure that religion has little influence on the secular state.
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This is critical for objective government, unfortunately even here the separation is not extensive enough. The Christian lobby has it's tentacles out, Abbott was a prime example of this.
 
Fadi said:
There was a time (before 1914) when there was no borders between what we now know as Muslim countries. We need to unite as Muslims first and foremost, not countries. And if that is not possible for whatever reason, then Islam and the brotherhood it brings within the Muslim world ought to be the uniting factor amongst those countries.

The west has nothing to fear from Islam as you yourself (on this forum) have never had anything to fear from me for being a Muslim. I once asked you about your knowledge of Islam and you were honest enough to admit ignorance. When I asked (not forced) to share my knowledge about Islam with you, you did not want it. I respected your wish and moved on, and here we are still brothers in humanity (I hope).

Now you may wish to point out the fanatics and extremist of my faith to me, and I won't argue with you there. However you being the sensible person that you are, would agree with me that each and every faith and community (atheists included) have there black sheep to contend with.
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I have no interest in any religion Fadi, not just Islam because from what we've seen in modern times and tbroughout history I can honestly say that I think the world would be a better place without it.
If I proclaimed that I have a pet dragon and that we travel the universe together I'd be referred to a psychiatrist pretty quickly and yet people with just as crazy belief call it religion and then it's okay.
I mean no disrespect to you or anyone else with religious beliefs and if people find comfort in that then that's fine hiwever, they should keep it to themselves.
 
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it will never be quashed completely, but conservative religious element of even Liberal Party is countered by many in the party.
 
spartacus said:
it will never be quashed completely, but conservative religious element of even Liberal Party is countered by many in the party.
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I tell you what though, people like Corey Bernadi, George Christensen and Eric Abetz are a worry though.
 
Darkoz said:
​

"Because I as a Muslim can not wait to see both the hypocrite US and its devilish child Saudi Arabia (and the surrounding gulf states) show their true colours for the rest of the world to see,..."

"Arabs..., I'd much rather say the Muslim world does not like Saudi Arabia period!..."

Were'nt the above quotes from you?
Click to expand...
Yes of course they were. Would you like me to elaborate on that Darkoz, as I don't write simply for the sake of writing. In other words if I can't back it up, I keep it to myself. But since I'm here now, I'll give you a glimpse of where I'm going with this. Did you know that it's against Islam to have a kingdom? What is Saudi Arabia? Whilst we're at it, what is Jordan, and few other countries in the region? Voting (democratic voting) as you know it, is part and parcel of Islam. The people of the Muslim majority countries have been deprived of that right since the west insured that whoever governs, has to be "approved" of otherwise, he'll be removed by hook or crook.

Women (a huge and an extremely hot topic for anyone who hates and is ignorant about Islam) is a subject that is always brought to the fore. Yet, the #1 country on planet earth who has deprived women of their God's given right is none other than Saudi Arabia, a regime that has 100% protection from Uncle Sam. Feminism, the western woman had to come up with that ideology in order to assert certain rights. In Islam it comes with the faith by default, but you (Darkoz) and everyone who only sees and hears what the media, as well as what those so called Islamic countries like Saudi Arabia do do with their women, has no other point of reference to use as a response to such non-Islamic behaviour by what appears to you as pure Islam except what you hear and read about Islam from sources shall we say, that are not as reliable as you would like them to be. Women can not even drive a car by themselves in that country for God's sake, and can not vote either. Or perhaps now (thanks to some pressure from the liberal west!!!), they can vote. So even to the ignorant person, the allowance to vote has to be credited to a foreign entity, when Islam has granted it over 1400 years ago.

And you ask me why I want Trump to do away with the Saudi kingdom! I've just given you the tip of the iceberg here, and why the Muslim world believes wholeheartedly that this evil country is far from being a true representative of what true Islam is, and the hate for the US is for supporting, protecting, and for keeping such a devil with his devilish actions away from the westerners' public eye.

If you tell a child that 90% of the Muslims who flew into the twin towers back on 9/11 were from Saudi Arabia, then you tell him we are going to punish Iraq, Afghanistan or whomever for that crime, what would you expect this sane child response (or reaction) be to you? Mmm, so X is the guilty, but we punish Y..., makes lot of sense. Anything to absolve the Kingdom from any guilt, but we can't do that without creating for the world a scapegoat we can BS about in order to keep the "contract" between the US and the Kingdom healthy and strong.
 
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Fadi said:
Yes of course they were. Would you like me to elaborate on that Darkoz, as I don't write simply for the sake of writing. In other words if I can't back it up, I keep it to myself. But since I'm here now, I'll give you a glimpse of where I'm going with this. Did you know that it's against Islam to have a kingdom? What is Saudi Arabia? Whilst we're at it, what is Jordan, and few other countries in the region? Voting (democratic voting) as you know it, is part and parcel of Islam. The people of the Muslim majority countries have been deprived of that right since the west insured that whoever governs, has to be "approved" of otherwise, he'll be removed by hook or crook.
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Which Countries as 'puppets' of the U.S. Fadi? Just Saudi Arabia?

I guess Iraq is now somewhat, due to arming its Military now?
 
Fadi said:
Yes of course they were. Would you like me to elaborate on that Darkoz, as I don't write simply for the sake of writing. In other words if I can't back it up, I keep it to myself. But since I'm here now, I'll give you a glimpse of where I'm going with this. Did you know that it's against Islam to have a kingdom? What is Saudi Arabia? Whilst we're at it, what is Jordan, and few other countries in the region? Voting (democratic voting) as you know it, is part and parcel of Islam. The people of the Muslim majority countries have been deprived of that right since the west insured that whoever governs, has to be "approved" of otherwise, he'll be removed by hook or crook.

Women (a huge and an extremely hot topic for anyone who hates and is ignorant about Islam) is a subject that is always brought to the fore. Yet, the #1 country on planet earth who has deprived women of their God's given right is none other than Saudi Arabia, a regime that has 100% protection from Uncle Sam. Feminism, the western woman had to come up with that ideology in order to assert certain rights. In Islam it comes with the faith by default, but you (Darkoz) and everyone who only sees and hears what the media, as well as what those so called Islamic countries like Saudi Arabia do do with their women, has no other point of reference to use as a response to such non-Islamic behaviour by what appears to you as pure Islam except what you hear and read about Islam from sources shall we say, that are not as reliable as you would like them to be. Women can not even drive a car by themselves in that country for God's sake, and can not vote either. Or perhaps now (thanks to some pressure from the liberal west!!!), they can vote. So even to the ignorant person, the allowance to vote has to be credited to a foreign entity, when Islam has granted it over 1400 years ago.

And you ask me why I want Trump to do away with the Saudi kingdom! I've just given you the tip of the iceberg here, and why the Muslim world believes wholeheartedly that this evil country is far from being a true representative of what true Islam is, and the hate for the US is for supporting, protecting, and for keeping such a devil with his devilish actions away from the westerners' public eye.

If you tell a child that 90% of the Muslims who flew into the twin towers back on 9/11 were from Saudi Arabia, then you tell him we are going to punish Iraq, Afghanistan or whomever for that crime, what would you expect this sane child response (or reaction) be to you? Mmm, so X is the guilty, but we punish Y..., makes lot of sense. Anything to absolve the Kingdom from any guilt, but we can't do that without creating for the world a scapegoat we can BS about in order to keep the "contract" between the US and the Kingdom healthy and strong.
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Maybe I worded it incorrectly, I said that many muslims hate the arabs and by arabs I mean Saudi Arabia, as much as they hate the US.
You then posted that you hadn't heard of that before which confused me considering what you posted earlier in the thread (which is your post that I quoted)

But regarding the 911 attacks, in my view George W Bush would have to be the most incompetent president the US ever had, the way he responded to the situation made no sense and I agree that he targeted the wrong people, his lies were obvious.
 
Darkoz said:
Religion should have ZERO influence on state matters.
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Maybe so Darkoz. However Islam does not make a separation between state and religion, and to Islam it's part and parcel of it. Now you may hate this fact, but I'm only telling it to you because it is a fact of Islam.

Having said the above, it is your right to practice whatever religion (or system/atheism) you wish to practice. There is no compulsion in Islam Darkoz. You may not wish to believe this, but it's the truth.

Furthermore, it is your right to fight and oppose any religious influence, be it from Islam, Christianity, or other. That fight does not have to resort to violence nor bloodshed between the opposing parties no sir. However it would be a fight of the minds, as it's a lot wiser to win and/or perused someone to your way of thinking though the power of the pen than at the point of a sword, for the latter may be achievable, is ultimately worthless, leading to more strife and disharmony as time passes.
 
Shrek said:
Is it correct that once you become Muslim you cannot leave the religion?
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Many Muslim people are converting to other faiths or atheism (watch YouTube and check out the websites of former Muslims);do you know of anyone who's been punished or killed for doing so?
 
Fadi said:
Maybe so Darkoz. However, Islam does not make a separation between state.and religion to Islam it's part and parcel of it. Now you may hate this fact, but I'm only telling it to you because it is a fact of Islam.
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I'm well aware of this Fadi and I know you won't agree with this nor would I expect you to since that is part of your belief but having state and religion in one is a dangerous thing, very evident when you look at the state of affairs in the middle east.

Fadi said:
having said the above, it is your right to practice whatever religion (or system/atheism) you wish to practice. There is no compulsion in Islam Darkoz. You may not wish to believe this, but it's the truth.
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I would really want to believe this Fadi but actions speak louder than words and this is not what I see happening around the world

Fadi said:
Furthermore, it is your right to fight and oppose any religious influence, be it from Islam, Christianity, or other. That fight does not have to resort to violence nor bloodshed between the opposing parties no sir. However it would be a fight of the minds, as it's a lot wiser to win and/or perused someone to your way of thinking though the power of the pen than at the point of a sword, for the latter may be achievable, is ultimately worthless, leading to more strife and disharmony as time passes.
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My thoughts are 100% with you on this however, that's not the reality we see happening.
And I have to say, if the majority of muslims practice a peaceful religion then why are they not doing anything about the so-called minority who terroize and mass murder in the name of Islam, Seems to me that muslims should bear the responsibility for these people since it's their religion that's been used for evil.
 
Darkoz said:
I'm well aware of this Fadi and I know you won't agree with this nor would I expect you to since that is part of your belief but having state and religion in one is a dangerous thing, very evident when you look at the state of affairs in the middle east.


I would really want to believe this Fadi but actions speak louder than words and this is not what I see happening around the world


My thoughts are 100% with you on this however, that's not the reality we see happening.
And I have to say, if the majority of muslims practice a peaceful religion then why are they not doing anything about the so-called minority who terroize and mass murder in the name of Islam, Seems to me that muslims should bear the responsibility for these people since it's their religion that's been used for evil.
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can say the same for Christians, do you take any responsibility for the actions of white supremacists or the kkk?
 
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