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If you're not a Muslim then you're the enemy, an infidel, this is what they get from the quran.
It seems to me that you're persistent in sticking to this subject, when the OP was not about Islam or Muslims. In any case, you have made a statement above re the Qur'an claiming that non Muslims are the enemy of Muslims. Are you 100% sure that that's what the Qur'an teaches, or are you simply alleging that's what the Qur'an teaches based on statements you've heard from others? To the point: have you actually read the Qur'an, or had a conversation with a Muslim scholar regarding the things you're claiming for the Qur'an? I'm willing to help you out if you're genuinely interested, however if your mind has been made up (without as much as ever opening/reading and understanding the message of Islam), then we'll leave it right here thank you.
 
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Religous texts are open to interpretation any way the reader wants. There is no right or wrong way to interpret it since it's all a fairy tail anyway. When religious books call for the beheading of non believers of their certain religion wether it's supposed to be taken literally or not, it doesn't matter, it's concerning. Maybe time for a revised edition for current times in some of these books.
 
Wouldn't waste my time on fairy tales. To many people who choose to believe, their holy books are as real as it gets, whilst to the non believer, it's simply a fairy tale. Quite understandable really. Each to his own.
 
I'd expect a non believer to say as much, and that is fine. What matters is that it's real to the one who chooses to believe. Believers and non believers exist on this earth, some like to wage a war of sort against the other simply based on their belief or lack thereof. I'm a believer who believes that believers and non believers alike can and ought to co exist side by side with mutual respect for each other's stance. Live and let live you might say...
 
From my limited understanding of the Qur'an - all i know is that it is a fancy book that provides a foundation for a religion - if it anything at all like the bible is to Christianity.....then it's all fairy tales.
I grew up in a semi-christian family. I was 12 by the time i realised nothing made any logical sense and basically immediately distanced myself from any religious followings.

IMO, anyone with a sound and logical mind cannot possible believe that two penquins walked from all the way from antartica to get on a boat! or that an enormous body of water simply part itself to allow safe passge....or some white guy rose from the dead and moved a giant boulder!!



!!!




!!!




!






:p
 
It seems to me that you're persistent in sticking to this subject, when the OP was not about Islam or Muslims. In any case, you have made a statement above re the Qur'an claiming that non Muslims are the enemy of Muslims. Are you 100% sure that that's what the Qur'an teaches, or are you simply alleging that's what the Qur'an teaches based on statements you've heard from others? To the point: have you actually read the Qur'an, or had a conversation with a Muslim scholar regarding the things you're claiming for the Qur'an? I'm willing to help you out if you're genuinely interested, however if your mind has been made up (without as much as ever opening/reading and understanding the message of Islam), then we'll leave it right here thank you.
I haven't read all of the Quran Fadi, nor do I have any desire to
Can you tell me what the Quran teaches about apostasy?
 
I haven't read all of the Quran Fadi, nor do I have any desire to
Can you tell me what the Quran teaches about apostasy?

Qur'an (4:89) - "They wish that you should disbelieve as they disbelieve, and then you would be equal; therefore take not to yourselves friends of them, until they emigrate in the way of God; then, if they turn their backs, take them, and slay them wherever you find them; take not to yourselves any one of them as friend or helper."

[url]http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/quran/012-apostasy.htm[/URL]

"Apostasy (ارتداد, irtidād and ridda) i.e. the rejection of faith, is a serious offense in Islam. The punishment for apostasy as prescribed by Prophet Muhammad is death. A murtad (مرتد apostate) who hides his apostasy is referred to as a munāfiq (منافق hypocrite). "

http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Islam_and_Apostasy



Interesting Darknutz.
 
This website you quote is a right wing anti-Islam rubbish site.

Will Wikipedia do?

"In Islamic law (sharia), the view among the majority of medieval jurists] was that a male apostate must be put to death unless he suffers from a mental disorder or converted under duress, for example, due to an imminent danger of being killed. A female apostate must be either executed, according to Shafi'i, Maliki, and Hanbali schools of Sunni Islamic jurisprudence (fiqh), or imprisoned until she reverts to Islam as advocated by the Sunni Hanafi school and by Shi'a scholars.[SUP][51][/SUP][SUP][78]"
[/SUP]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostasy_in_Islam
 
"The punishment for apostasy from Islam is a controversial topic for Muslims living in the West and for ex-Muslims everywhere. That’s because Islam teaches that apostates are to be killed. We know from historic Islamic documents that during Muhammad's lifetime, and the lifetimes of the next four "Rightly Guided Caliphs", tens of thousands of Muslims left the faith of Islam and thousands were killed. On a large scale the Muslims made war on groups that chose to leave Islam and massacres of apostates occurred. On a smaller scale individual apostates were executed. This death sentence is in effect whether or not the apostasy occurred in or out of the Islamic state."

http://www.answering-islam.org/Silas/apostasy.htm

@Repacked;
 
The nuances of Shari'ah law in contemporary society is something that none of us are qualified to discuss in detail, with the exception of maybe one member who's example could only be described as positive. In the face of constant offence and ignorance I might add.
 
I haven't read all of the Quran Fadi, nor do I have any desire to
Can you tell me what the Quran teaches about apostasy?
I offered to help if you were genuinely interested. It's obvious to me that you're not interested to learn anything about Islam save what is presented out there by the anti-Islam websites etc. However to satisfy your curiosity re what the Qur'an says about apostasy. The answer is that the Qur'an does not prescribe any such penalty (as death) while referring to the subject of apostasy many times over.There is no mandatory death penalty in the Qur'an for any crime. The death penalty for apostasy in fact conflicts with the Qur'an. There are only two things for which a person can be killed in Islam, I say can and not must be killed, and apostasy is not one of them.

Like I said Darkoz, if you were genuinely interested in learning about Islam as some people are, I would have willingly giving you some of my time to answer and clarify any question you may have had for me. However as things stand right now, I wish to leave it right here thank you Sir.

PS: I just remembered...there are some websites on the net that are put up by former Muslims, and they've got nothing positive to say about Islam. Surely, they would be contradicting themselves whenever the subject of apostasy is mentioned, as they themselves are a living proof that an apostate is not killed as they and their friends would want us to so readily believe.
 
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The nuances of Shari'ah law in contemporary society is something that none of us are qualified to discuss in detail, with the exception of maybe one member who's example could only be described as positive. In the face of constant offence and ignorance I might add.

Seriously Repacked, I've been a strong "defender" of Fadi quite some time. Darkoz has also defended Fadi at times as well.


Wikipedia:

"Historically, the vast majority of Islamic scholars have held that apostasy in Islam is a crime as well as a sin, an act of treason punishable with the death penalty,[SUP][9][/SUP] typically after a waiting period to allow the apostate time to repent and return to Islam.[SUP][10][/SUP][SUP][11][/SUP][SUP][12][/SUP] The kind of apostasy generally deemed to be punishable by the jurists was of the political kind, although there were considerable legal differences of opinion on this matter.[SUP][13][/SUP] Wael Hallaq states that "[in] a culture whose lynchpin is religion, religious principles and religious morality, apostasy is in some way equivalent to high treason in the modern nation-state."[SUP][14][/SUP] Some contemporary Muslim scholars also hold the traditional view that the death penalty for apostasy is required by the two primary sources of Sharia - the Quran and the Hadiths. However, the vast majority argue that the death penalty is an inappropriate punishment,[SUP][15][/SUP][SUP][16][/SUP][SUP][17][/SUP][SUP][18][/SUP][SUP][19][/SUP] inconsistent with the Qur'anic injunctions such as Q.88:21-22[SUP][20][/SUP] or "no compulsion in religion";[SUP][21][/SUP] and/or that it is not a general rule but enacted at a time when the early Muslim community faced enemies who threatened its unity, safety, and security, and needed to prevent and punish the equivalent of desertion or treason,[SUP][22][/SUP] and should be enforced only if apostasy becomes a mechanism of public disobedience and disorder (fitna).[SUP][23][/SUP] As such moderate Muslims reject such penalty.[SUP][20][/SUP] According to critics, the death penalty or other punishment for Apostasy in Islam is a violation of universal human rights, and an issue of freedom of faith and conscience.[SUP][15][/SUP][SUP][24][/SUP] A majority considers apostasy in Islam to be some form of religious crime, although a minority does not.[SUP][4][/SUP][SUP][25][/SUP][SUP][26"
[/SUP]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostasy_in_Islam
 
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I was raised a Christian and have read the Bible a few times. Never would a TRUE Christian put to Death a person who rejects Christianity.
 
Seriously Repacked, I've been a strong "defender" of Fadi quite some time. Darkoz has also defended Fadi at times as well.

Did I miss some event or happening that has suddenly caused him to be undeserving of having his POV validated if it is correct or more worthwhile than another?

The situation seems very clear.

What situation is this specifically? Islam is bad?

The punishment for Apostacy in Islam is death and can be seen by almost every website if you bother to search.

And the same can be read in the Bible (if you bothered to search). Quote -

Deut. 17:2-5 2 ¶If there be found among you, within any of thy gateswhich the Lord thy God giveth thee, man or woman, that hath wrought wickedness in the sight of the Lord thy God, in transgressing his covenant,
3 And hath gone and served other gods, and worshipped them, either the sun, or moon, or any of the host of heaven, which I have not commanded;
4 And it be told thee, and thou hast heard of it, and inquired diligently, and, behold, it be true, and the thing certain, that such abomination is wrought in Israel:
5 Then shalt thou bring forth that man or that woman, which have committed that wicked thing, unto thy gates,even that man or that woman, and shalt stone them with stones, till they die

Sounds pretty clear cut doesn't it? Well...Does it? The point is that it is accepted that this well known Christian text called the Bible is open to interpretation and not may modern Christians would strictly adhere to this. Then why is the Qu'ran any different? Not all Christians are fundamentalist zealots, however as a matter of convenience and bandwagonning, and in the absence of any real knowledge idiots treat (and, of greater concern maybe actually believe) that all Muslims are fundamentalists who want to impose strict Shari'ah law on the rest of the world and kill all non Muslims. Lock your doors people! First the 'Wogs' were going top ruin our society, then the 'Asian Invasion' nearly wiped us out, now anyone with dark skin who 'looks' like a Muslim is trying to destroy our way of life and threatening our 'freedom'. (insert picture of bald eagle and waving flag here)

Do you view European Muslims the same way? People seem to think Muslims are from the Middle East and that's it. There are huge populations of Russian Muslims, Chechnyan Muslims, Bulgarian Muslims, Chinese Muslims, Uzbekistani Muslims, make no mistake there are plenty of 'white' looking Muslims with which you can challenge your racist paradigms.


You seem to be trying to twist facts here Repacked.

No mate. Just not buying into the hyperbole. To the contrary it seems you're suddenly quoting dubious sources and pushing a particular barrow, but I don't doubt that you're smart enough not to believe what you're typing and just want to see what the response will be. :p Just bear in mind that inflammatory statements don't advance the debate constructively, they just cause ill will.

I was raised a Christian and have read the Bible a few times. Never would a TRUE Christian put to Death a person who rejects Christianity.

What are you talking about?? The Bible quote above says you should! Seems pretty clear cut to me. Seems like you're trying to twist the facts @Sir El Stiffy;. You're obviously not a 'true' Christian then. Thin ice my boy...



My conclusion is that this is a Body-building and Power-lifting forum, if you want to be armchair Theologians then I'm sure there is a Theology forum that could accommodate you. This discussion will never change in this environment. Too many turkeys.
 
@Repacked; the initial subject was put forward that Islam can be quite a brutal Religion. The topic of Apostacy was mentioned. I then looked it up as I wasn't sure about it and found that it is punishable by Death by Muslims as stated by most websites INCLUDING Wikipedia.

I now have to reverse my previous defense of Islam and am starting to agree with others, that based on my further research Islam can be quite brutal and this brutality is totally at odds with Christianity.
 
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