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Attack of the DOMS (Muscle Soreness)

Silverback said:
If you are encountering soreness week in week out of a particular muscle or group of muscles, then, in a real sense you are in fact not training properly.

DOMS is a secondary phenomenon of not working-out out regularly enough to maximize the possibility of muscular growth.
Click to expand...

You can train a muscle every three days and still get DOMS. It has more to do with the load you impose on it. There is a school of thought that says DOMS is the result of the bodies anti-inflamatory response to muscular damage, which results in anabolism. By this you could hypothesise that if you are not getting DOMS you are not maximising anabolism.

As with most things I think the answer lies somewhere in the middle.
 
You knunce are way too scientific, words like phantomenon, canabolism, hyperventilate, fuck :confused:
I'm going with the fart theory.
 
Repacked said:
You can train a muscle every three days and still get DOMS. It has more to do with the load you impose on it. There is a school of thought that says DOMS is the result of the bodies anti-inflamatory response to muscular damage, which results in anabolism. By this you could hypothesise that if you are not getting DOMS you are not maximising anabolism.

As with most things I think the answer lies somewhere in the middle.
Click to expand...

In my experience what you are saying has never happened to me or people i"ve worked with.

As ive said, muscle does not feel pain, it does not have the nerves that sense pain (fact).

The other fact is, and it's as old as dirt, progression is the only true measure of increase muscle strength, strength is only possible when the muscle increases in volume (size), increasing resistance over time is the name of the game in weight lifting.
 
Silverback said:
In my experience what you are saying has never happened to me or people i"ve worked with.

As ive said, muscle does not feel pain, it does not have the nerves that sense pain (fact).

The other fact is, and it's as old as dirt, progression is the only true measure of increase muscle strength, strength is only possible when the muscle increases in volume (size), increasing resistance over time is the name of the game in weight lifting.
Click to expand...

If you're training each muscle twice per week it is less likely to happen because the time required to increase load enough to get significant DOMS at that frequency is not viable for most people, hence most people do not experience it long term. I say time because you quickly reach the limit imposed by weight and must incorporate extra volume to increase the load. There is also increased risk of 'plateauing' as it is not incremental overload and is very taxing on the body for natural trainees.

If you are doing workout X for a muscle group, twice per week and seeing regular incremental increases in the weight being used, most would agree all is well. One day you complete this workout, then do 10 x 10 of an exercise to finish that muscle group because, well, you feel like it. The next day you will be sore because you have introduced an extra-ordinary load. Regardless of the prior frequency of training.

I do not disagree that progression, whether it be strength/training density/physical size, generally a combination of the above over time, is the only measure of training efficacy. That is exactly why, regardless of whether you are getting regular or zero DOMS, these factors are what determines whether you are training 'properly', not the level of DOMS you experience.
 
Repacked said:
If you're training each muscle twice per week it is less likely to happen because the time required to increase load enough to get significant DOMS at that frequency is not viable for most people, hence most people do not experience it long term. I say time because you quickly reach the limit imposed by weight and must incorporate extra volume to increase the load. There is also increased risk of 'plateauing' as it is not incremental overload and is very taxing on the body for natural trainees.

If you are doing workout X for a muscle group, twice per week and seeing regular incremental increases in the weight being used, most would agree all is well. One day you complete this workout, then do 10 x 10 of an exercise to finish that muscle group because, well, you feel like it. The next day you will be sore because you have introduced an extra-ordinary load. Regardless of the prior frequency of training.

I do not disagree that progression, whether it be strength/training density/physical size, generally a combination of the above over time, is the only measure of training efficacy. That is exactly why, regardless of whether you are getting regular or zero DOMS, these factors are what determines whether you are training 'properly', not the level of DOMS you experience.
Click to expand...

Give me an example of "workout x", "then 10x10"; If you are talking about a specific exercise, then, I believe soreness is not DOMS but joint soreness from overuse, but that's another topic and another train of thought and on that; at the end of the day for me, my thoughts are this; you can cut cheese as thin as you like, you can stack it as high as you like, but it's still cheese.

I've stated my thoughts on DOMS it's all pretty simple.
 
Silverback said:
Give me an example of "workout x", "then 10x10"; If you are talking about a specific exercise, then, I believe soreness is not DOMS but joint soreness from overuse, but that's another topic and another train of thought and on that; at the end of the day for me, my thoughts are this; you can cut cheese as thin as you like, you can stack it as high as you like, but it's still cheese.
Click to expand...

What workout X and 10 x 10 consist of is not relevant, they can be any exercises for a given muscle group. All I am referring to is the additional load to your regular routine.

Silverback said:
I've stated my thoughts on DOMS it's all pretty simple.
Click to expand...

Yes.
 
What exactly are some you not agreeing with here?
All things being equal, the guy who works his muscles once a week or less will most likely experience doms more regularly than the guy that works his muscles more frequently, so nothing to dispute really.
 
I don't get it either, man?? The finer details aren't worth nitpicking over imo unless your like an olympic athlete and need that 0.0001% advantage..
 
Darkoz said:
What exactly are some you not agreeing with here?
All things being equal, the guy who works his muscles once a week or less will most likely experience doms more regularly than the guy that works his muscles more frequently, so nothing to dispute really.
Click to expand...

That was never the argument.

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Darkoz said:
What exactly are some you not agreeing with here?
All things being equal, the guy who works his muscles once a week or less will most likely experience doms more regularly than the guy that works his muscles more frequently, so nothing to dispute really.
Click to expand...

I guess the argument is frequency when the volume is equal.

For example.
- 4x full body workouts a week.
- 2x upper body workouts a week, 2x lower body workouts a week.
- 1x leg workout, 1x back workout, 1x shoulder workout, 1x chest workout.

Remember, all volume being equal.

The full body workout 4x a week will hit each muscle group less each day, but very frequently. Your body will adapt to this quite fast.

The 1x leg/back/shoulder/chest workout a week will hit each muscle group to fatigue each workout. But each muscle group gets much more rest. Your body will be slower to adapt and DOMS will be greater.

The 2x upper/lower workout will be somewhere in between.

So I guess the question/debate is, what's more effective. Hitting muscles groups harder and then giving it plenty of rest. Or hitting is more frequently but with less intensity.
 
Monday I squatted 175kg no wraps for 8 reps
Then did 5x10x100kg safety bar squats

Then some log pressing, I think it was 5x5x60kg
Yesterday was bad, but today I woke up with flu-like symptoms lol. Everything but a head cold. Nausea, extreme DOMS, my joints and bones ached lol especially the forearms, massive headache etc lol

I had to skip training
 
0ni said:
Monday I squatted 175kg no wraps for 8 reps
Then did 5x10x100kg safety bar squats

Then some log pressing, I think it was 5x5x60kg
Yesterday was bad, but today I woke up with flu-like symptoms lol. Everything but a head cold. Nausea, extreme DOMS, my joints and bones ached lol especially the forearms, massive headache etc lol

I had to skip training
Click to expand...

Well, you're obviously doing something wrong then... :rolleyes:
 
0ni said:
Monday I squatted 175kg no wraps for 8 reps
Then did 5x10x100kg safety bar squats

Then some log pressing, I think it was 5x5x60kg
Yesterday was bad, but today I woke up with flu-like symptoms lol. Everything but a head cold. Nausea, extreme DOMS, my joints and bones ached lol especially the forearms, massive headache etc lol

I had to skip training
Click to expand...

Not enough frequency.
 
Well it added 100kg to my total in the last year, 50 of which was on my squat
 
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