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Do you utilise a periodisation system in your training?


  • Total voters
    8
fact is, most peoples "hard training" isn't hard at all...

its prolly 5% of all people that really realise, hard training

and within that, some train hard in different ways... like some no rest, some rest 5 mins and take 3hrs (no idea why tbh)

yeah
 
fact is, most peoples "hard training" isn't hard at all...

its prolly 5% of all people that really realise, hard training

and within that, some train hard in different ways... like some no rest, some rest 5 mins and take 3hrs (no idea why tbh)

yeah

Just take your text book somewhere else mate
 
Over training really depends on the individual and your fitness level. Some people can get away with training twice a day and others struggle with 4 sessions a week. Listening to bodybuilders on this topic, most say training every day is fine as long as your body is recovering.

You will know if you're under recovering. You'll constantly be sore and unmotivated as your body can't catch up to the work load. People say I over train training 6 days a week. But I don't feel that I'm burning myself out.
 
if you don't make gains, your not "hard training" fact. so stfu loser. so sorry you still look the same year after year, my mistake!
 
Absolutely. As much as some people are predisposed to endurance activities and some acute power activities, some are able to endure more frequent training. This doesn't mean that the people that can train more will get better gains though. It could mean they have to work harder for their gainzzz.

For the sake of argument I wouldn't distinguish between over training and under recovering, as [MENTION=9159]wingman[/MENTION]; asked earlier. It's just managing the variables from different ends but the effect is the same.
 
Oooh. I disagree there, you may have had the luxury of gear for too long. I think alot people think they train hard, but don't. If you don't push yourself to burning out (not saying it's a good thing) how do you know where the edge is? Know what I mean? I reckon natty kunce who think over training is impossible haven't trained hard enough.

No that's not right because everyone in my gym trains the same way no matter if they are enhanced, natural or female
I managed to overtrain once, I was natural and I was doing some pretty insane shit

You won't need to go anywhere near "the edge" in your training. You just increase volume over time. Getting up to your work capacity will take at least 6 years and even then, that can be pushed higher with cardio
 
No that's not right because everyone in my gym trains the same way no matter if they are enhanced, natural or female
I managed to overtrain once, I was natural and I was doing some pretty insane shit

You won't need to go anywhere near "the edge" in your training. You just increase volume over time. Getting up to your work capacity will take at least 6 years and even then, that can be pushed higher with cardio

No you don't need to train on the edge of exhaustion, I think we all agree that is sub-optimal. My point is that if you train as hard as you can for a prolonged period it is possible to reach a point where you need to rest, or cannot maintain that intensity indefinitely. There is not 'just getting stronger' regardless of how intensely you push yourself. Natural trainers who believe they can handle infinite volume or that 'over training' is not possible are either very physically gifted or have not trained with maximum intensity for as long as possible (which may not be a bad thing).
 
No you don't need to train on the edge of exhaustion, I think we all agree that is sub-optimal. My point is that if you train as hard as you can for a prolonged period it is possible to reach a point where you need to rest, or cannot maintain that intensity indefinitely. There is not 'just getting stronger' regardless of how intensely you push yourself. Natural trainers who believe they can handle infinite volume or that 'over training' is not possible are either very physically gifted or have not trained with maximum intensity for as long as possible (which may not be a bad thing).

Nah because you increase the volume slowly, it should take almost a decade
 
Aside from dropping off prior to a meet do you two include deload periods at specific intervals?
No brother, it's not a deload, but a different type of load. I'm speaking based on my experience as a former Olympic weightlifter, where all our training was done using periodisation methodology. How does the load become different? By reducing the volume and increasing the intensity. In plain English this = to reducing the number of overall poundage lifted during a week, whilst increasing the load on the bar. You achieve that by first reducing the number of reps, then sets, then both, whilst replacing that with sets of lower rep ranges (1 to 2), and of course increasing the load on the bar based on your current 1RM before that cycle of training began.

Some may argue and say hey Fadi, that looks like a deload to me mate! What it looks like and what it actually is are two different thing; a different type of load as I've already stated. First we had less load on our CNS system, and as the comp day nears, we have less stress on our muscles, and more stress on our CNS. Hence, the lower overall poundage lifted per week, coupled with increasing the time intervals between sets in order to fully recover from those heavy weights. So as you can see brother, the load is there, but it's place has shifted, and as a consequence, it has become a different type of load.

Edit (add): My first response was a reply to the actual OP. However now I see that the posts have moved in a different direction somewhat, a direction I wrote about here: Overtraining or under-recovering? If you read, you'd find that it's near impossible to over train, and this overtraining is a consequence of something else that is actually planned by top coaches when training elite athletes. What is that something else? It's a planed overreaching. During my nearly four years of Olympic weightlifting training, only once did I (and my 9 other weightlifting colleagues) experience a very slight case of over training. I say slight because that's exactly what it was based on the time it lasted, and incidentally, that's how its severity is measured. So how long did it last, where all the 10 AIS weightlifters were relaying the same message, with the only difference was in their choice of words to express how disgusted with the sport of Olympic weightlifting they all were and how we needed a fuck#ng break from all that training crap blah blah blah....you get the picture. So how long this state of overtraining last (due to a mere two weeks over reaching)? About one week, that's it. After one week of winging like little girls, we all went back to solid training. So when an average person tell me that he is overtraining, I nod my head, give him a smile, and assure him that he is most likely under-recovering instead.

Our body is not stupid, it loves to survive (and it has many mechanism in place to insure it does just that, our brain is but one of those...a glimpse of what I'm talking about is when you pushed yourself to complete a set of 20 or so kick ass squat repetitions) so unless someone else pushes you, you won't know what it means to be really pushed, period! If I'm ignorant about anything and everything I talk about on this forum, please trust me that this is one area I am not ignorant about!
 
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No that's not right because everyone in my gym trains the same way no matter if they are enhanced, natural or female
I managed to overtrain once, I was natural and I was doing some pretty insane shit

You won't need to go anywhere near "the edge" in your training. You just increase volume over time. Getting up to your work capacity will take at least 6 years and even then, that can be pushed higher with cardio

says the person stagnant at 75kg for year after year

i don't care if its your "weight class", you haven't lived right until you see your true potential, you my friend, have a near sighted view of that so far... fact.

edit: i overtrain nearly every session, thats why i take a week off before returning, different lifestyle, different outlook... im after muscle gains, couldn't give a shit whats on the bar.
 
No brother, it's not a deload, but a different type of load. I'm speaking based on my experience as a former Olympic weightlifter, where all our training was done using periodisation methodology. How does the load become different? By reducing the volume and increasing the intensity. In plain English this = to reducing the number of overall poundage lifted during a week, whilst increasing the load on the bar. You achieve that by first reducing the number of reps, then sets, then both, whilst replacing that with sets of lower rep ranges (1 to 2), and of course increasing the load on the bar based on your current 1RM before that cycle of training began.

Some may argue and say hey Fadi, that looks like a deload to me mate! What it looks like and what it actually is are two different thing; a different type of load as I've already stated. First we had less load on our CNS system, and as the comp day nears, we have less stress on our muscles, and more stress on our CNS. Hence, the lower overall poundage lifted per week, coupled with increasing the time intervals between sets in order to fully recover from those heavy weights. So as you can see brother, the load is there, but it's place has shifted, and as a consequence, it has become a different type of load.

Edit (add): My first response was a reply to the actual OP. However now I see that the posts have moved in a different direction somewhat, a direction I wrote about here: Overtraining or under-recovering?If you read, you'd find that it's near impossible to over train, and this overtraining is a consequence of something else that is actually planned by top coaches when training elite athletes. What is that something else? It's a planed overreaching. During my nearly four years of Olympic weightlifting training, only once did I (and my 9 other weightlifting colleagues) experience a very slight case of over training. I say slight because that's exactly what it was based on the time it lasted, and incidentally, that's how its severity is measured. So how long did it last, where all the 10 AIS weightlifters were relaying the same message, with the only difference was in their choice of words to express how disgusted with the sport of Olympic weightlifting they all were and how we needed a fuck#ng break from all that training crap blah blah blah....you get the picture. So how long this state of overtraining last (due to a mere two weeks over reaching)? About one week, that's it. After one week of winging like little girls, we all went back to solid training. So when an average person tell me that he is overtraining, I nod my head, give him a smile, and assure him that he is most likely under-recovering instead.

Our body is not stupid, it loves to survive (and it has many mechanism in place to insure it does just that, our brain is but one of those...a glimpse of what I'm talking about is when you pushed yourself to complete a set of 20 or so kick ass squat repetitions) so unless someone else pushes you, you won't know what it means to be really pushed, period! If I'm ignorant about anything and everything I talk about on this forum, please trust me that this is one area I am not ignorant about!

seriously, where were you 10-12yrs ago when i really needed you, could have saved me so much in research! awesome post, thanks fadi.

simply awesome.
 
i agree that coaches deliberately overtrain, they have to, so when they slow down they will perform awesomee...

but there are others like myself, that have a background in hard training, but too time off, then that mindset is like before, but the body isn't.. and its extremely easy to overtrain, because simply, we not elite anymore, we a normal person with an elite brain...

this is very hard to deal with psychologically, i think this part of the sport needs to be adressed a tad more.

if we were to use me for example, i used to have quads 2 inched thicker, could squat crazy... now my back is fucked, my quads are nothing, im not even a shadow of myself physically... i don't think people talk enough about how with a high, eventually comes a low.

or maybe im alone??? im sure im not.
 
ive been watching dlb on youtube, 5 days out she's crying like a baby. she ended up coming 2nd in the arnold classic, how the fuck can she be unhappy? well think about it, she's crying cause there could have been more.

everyone can always do more, everyone. it doesn't matter who.

just do more! then after she talks about how in 2 days she totally lost her match fitness, spent 15weeks and in 2 days lost it all...
so if someone that elite is talking about losing shit in 2 days??
then i'd be pretty happy with where im at, so lost as progress is happening.
 
says the person stagnant at 75kg for year after year

i don't care if its your "weight class", you haven't lived right until you see your true potential, you my friend, have a near sighted view of that so far... fact.

edit: i overtrain nearly every session, thats why i take a week off before returning, different lifestyle, different outlook... im after muscle gains, couldn't give a shit whats on the bar.

Lol I'm 83kg at the moment
You look like a twink
 
I think over training takes a lot more than you think it does. And as you build your capacity you build that ceiling up as well.

I dont believe in training scheduled deloads. Life gives you enough deloads already - health problems, relationship problems, vacations, life celebratory milestone moments etc. all put you out of training for a week or whatever and you can go back with a new outlook afterwards.
That's very good wingnut
 
I do 3/5/1, though within the last cycle started adding more volume and decreased the deload from every 4 weeks to every 8 (so gone from a 3 to a 6 week mesocycle). The 3 and 531 weeks are based around moving heavier weight, with the 5 week based on volume more so.

Deload week is basically all the assistance + warmup sets for the main lifts on each day, if you really want to you can skip training for that week, but I prefer consistency.

I like it and so far touch wood injury free, which above all else is my priority with training. I'd rather make slower, steadier progress than go all out and hurt myself and unable to train. There is a bit of stuffing around with calculating it all out, but I like to walk into the gym knowing exactly how many reps @ which amounts I NEED to do, then being able to regulate how much extra I do on top.

I'm sure there is probably something more hardcore I could do if all I was concerned about was weight on the bar.
 
I think over training takes a lot more than you think it does. And as you build your capacity you build that ceiling up as well.

I dont believe in training scheduled deloads. Life gives you enough deloads already - health problems, relationship problems, vacations, life celebratory milestone moments etc. all put you out of training for a week or whatever and you can go back with a new outlook afterwards.

I think over training takes a lot more than you think it does
I agree. It takes a lot to reach that stage, which many never experience.

And as you build your capacity you build that ceiling up as well.
Fair enough. But how do you build that capacity? I say by applying some functional overreaching into one's training program. Great, so where does deload fits into all of this?

I dont believe in training scheduled deloads.
I do, but I see why you don't. You give the following reason for why you don't:
Life gives you enough deloads already - health problems, relationship problems, vacations, life celebratory milestone moments etc. all put you out of training for a week or whatever and you can go back with a new outlook afterwards
I see some contradictions here, both from within that whole paragraph, as well as when we compare it with the first two sentences re the capacity to raise one's overtraining celling.

I am not infallible, so if I have misunderstood something from what you've written, I'm happy to be corrected.

First, let us take the first two sentences and see if they fit with or are cancelled by the paragraph that you've followed them with. Building one's capacity by raising the ceiling to reaching a state of over training takes adaptation. We move forward as we adapt to some level of stress. So to say on one hand that my capacity to over train can be increased by building that ceiling, the natural question would be how, how is that achieved, through what mechanism? As I've already said, it's through the mechanism of adaptation. How do we adapt? By stressing our bodies beyond their level of comfort so to speak. Okay, so how can one build one's capacity if life naturally keeps on providing us with its deloadings? The answer is we can't raise our capacity and in turn build up that overtraining celling if we rely on such a life with all its natural deloading mechanism. Hence, I do believe in a factored in "deload", instead of leaving it to life to do it for me.

I did say that there was yet another contradiction which I spotted intrinsic to the second paragraph, and that is to do with what is understood to be deloading by you wingman. I'll elaborate.

Life gives you enough deloads already - health problems, relationship problems, vacations,
A deload is exactly what it sound like, a load off one's back so to speak. A health problem is not a deload but an added hefty load instead. So hefty in fact that it would be great for one to recover to a state of health that one was in before falling ill. However that is never the case, as we always return slightly weaker after an illness and do our best to play catch ups, let alone feel ahead/stronger to where we've left off before falling ill.

So I put it to you that an illness is not synonymous with taking a vacation. No matter how you look at it, an illness produces a totally different array of catabolic hormones, emotional stress, physical weakness and so on. A vacation on the other hand is well, a deload in the sense of the way it affect our physical, emotional, mental state, and overall wellbeing.

As a side note to the paragraph re life's deloads: I can confidently tell you that at the elite level, athletes do not share those same deloads privileges that are on offer to a non-elite athlete. I know for a fact that if a weightlifter at the AIS did not show up to the training hall, he would be issued with a fine! Taking time off to maximize a deload is not something that is practiced by elite athletes, because as I have stated earlier on in another post, we view deload as a different load and not simply time off training.
 
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ive been watching dlb on youtube, 5 days out she's crying like a baby. she ended up coming 2nd in the arnold classic, how the fuck can she be unhappy? well think about it, she's crying cause there could have been more.

everyone can always do more, everyone. it doesn't matter who.

just do more! then after she talks about how in 2 days she totally lost her match fitness, spent 15weeks and in 2 days lost it all...
so if someone that elite is talking about losing shit in 2 days??
then i'd be pretty happy with where im at, so lost as progress is happening.

I have no idea wtf you are talking about.
 
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