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Protein totality; one bodybuilder’s reflection from outside the box.

Fadi

...
Mention the word protein to a bodybuilder and ask him, what is the first thing that comes into your mind? If he’s hungry and thinking of food, he may list for you all the foods that focus on protein, foods such as meat, fish, etc. If on the other hand his mind is in training mode, he would automatically and without any hesitation say: but muscle growth of course.

In both cases, our bodybuilding friend was right on the money, however there’s more to protein than meets the eye, and it’s something each and every bodybuilder needs to be mindful of. Before I delve into this crucial point, I’d like to ask you few questions regarding something I’m 100% certain you’ve heard about. The ketogenic diet, surely you’ve heard of it, and you most likely know of some bodybuilders who swear by its effectiveness in helping them achieve whatever it is they’ve set out to achieve. You most probably know also, (even though you may not be an advocate of such a diet), that the main macro of such a diet is fat, followed by protein, with carbohydrates coming in a very distant 3[SUP]rd[/SUP] (if it ever even appears on the radar of such a diet). I’m not here to judge either way, however I am here to make the point, the obvious point that the main fuel that this diet relies on comes from fatty acids (ketones) and not carbohydrates.


Why? Why does the ketogenic diet uses fat for fuel and not something else? Because the ketogenic dieter has re-programmed his body to use fatty acids in the absence of carbohydrates, that’s the simple way of putting it. Great, now that we’ve got this out of the way, let us now move onto the subject at hand: protein.


We’ve agreed that one of protein’s main functions in our body is to serve as a building block for new tissue. Now here’s where it gets interesting. What do you think occurs after your ingested protein does what it does best, in building new tissue etc.? Well, with such a high emphasis that is placed on the totality of protein amongst bodybuilders, you are guaranteed of a spillover effect, would you agree with me on that? By spillover, I mean a surplus amount of protein left over beyond what is required. Well, where to from here with that excess protein do you think? I can think of two avenues this excess protein can take, a) become oxidised / breakdown and used for fuel, and b) stored as fat. I can’t think of a 3[SUP]rd[/SUP] avenue this excess protein would take, however I can think of something a hell of lot more critical than what I’ve just shared with you so far: the re-programming of your body’s functions to “see” protein for something other than what it was mainly intended for.


If you ask me, the last macro I’d want to use for fuel would be protein. And if you (as a bodybuilder) insist on taking in loads and loads of this precious macro instead of relying on either fats or carbs to burn your fires, then I’m afraid you’d be doing what the ketogenic bodybuilder/dieter has done, in the sense of training his body to use fats for fuel instead of carbs, here you’d also be training your body (irrespective to what extent) in doing exactly the same thing, perhaps to a different degree, but this time using not only your dietary protein intakes, but also your stored amino acids, also known as hard earned precious muscles!


Some may say hey Fadi; you’re making a big deal out of nothing. So what if I use some of my ingested protein for fuel? My reply would be no big deal at all, unless you can insure you’re not sending your body the wrong signals. We are in the driver’s seat, and our body responds to what we ask of it to do and not the other way around. So if you’re cool with teaching your body a new trick in breaking down your proteins for fuel, either from a dietary source or hard earned muscles, then my suggestion to you would be to seat down with yourself and re-evaluate the balance of your macros.


I’ll leave you on a lighter note. A husband finding himself late for work, asks his wife to make him one of his quick “muscle protein shakes”. Did you know that it’s not high protein that boosts the size of your muscles, but rather the stimulation of your muscle fibers through some smart and effective exercising that leads to new muscle growth? You want proof? I’ll give you proof. Notice that new bodybuilder who has just commenced training on Monday. After a week or two, you look at him and see some new muscular development, with perhaps a new leanness to his overall physique. He tells you that he did not increase his food intake, nor changed his eating habits. What brought on these obvious changes? Muscle stimulation through resistance exercising, that’s what. Beyond that, this new trainee would have to increase his overall caloric intake if he wishes to increase his muscle size further. Overall caloric intake has never meant an over the top protein intake, or the singling out of one macro above all other macros haphazardly.
 
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What macro breakdown do you think is optimal if one was not to choose a keto diet? Optimal being subjective of course.
 
What macro breakdown do you think is optimal if one was not to choose a keto diet? Optimal being subjective of course.
As you have sensibly put it, an optimal level is subjective. However that does not mean we could not follow some guidelines that would at least steer us in the right direction! What guidelines? Choosing a slow carb over a low carb macro would be a wise start wouldn't you agree? If our goal (say) is to maintain a steady / stable level of insulin, without the harmful effects caused by its sharp rises and falls, then just from that point of view, a slow carb would stand above a low carb plan. Keep in mind that there are certain societies who thrive on a high fat high protein low fat diet, with no ill effects that are seen in the modern world. However the source of their food is 100% natural; not something we can easily claim for ourselves living in the modern and civilized world.

Yet on the other hand, you have people (right this instance), who survive on a diet that is high in carbs, medium/low in fat, to just adequate protein. In percentage terms this would look like this:

Carbs 70%
Fats 20%
Protein 10%

The carbs come mainly from tubers (potatoes, yams, taro etc.), and vegetables.
The fats comes mainly from coconuts, with its very stable saturated fatty acids profile.
The protein (or pure protein if you like) comes from fish.

The above sounds a bit like a pescetarian diet but it's not. It's actually a kitavan based diet. Belonging to the people of the tiny Melanesian island of Kitava, next to Papua new guinea.

kitava01[1].jpg

Not much fat on that young indigenous man.

Another guideline for me when it comes to protein say, would be mother's breast milk. We double in size only once in our life time, and that usually occurs between birth and about 4 months. So in 4 months, we go from whatever weight we were born with, and end up double that weight based on the composition of breast milk alone. Looking at the protein percentage of human breast milk, you'd find that it hovers around the 5 to 6% mark. Most fruits carry that much protein parentage within them, making green vegetables a very high source of protein in comparison. I'm not suggesting one goes vegan or vegetarian, I'm neither, but the point I'm making is that no one ever suffers from protein deficiencies (here in the western world).

So to me it makes sense to opt for a diet that is high in slow carbs, and medium in highly stable fats, and adequate in whole real food protein foods. You can have a diet that is 40% of its calories coming from fats, like I used to have (and still have at times) coming from a Mediterranean region of the world, with a high consumption of fresh cold pressed extra virgin olive oil drizzled liberally on almost everything. Unfortunately 5 years after I was born, the state of wheat in the world took a drastic change for the worst, causing all sorts of issues due to the corruption of its protein structure to say the least. It has finally caught up with people's microbiome environment, where we now here of health issues we never heard before, such as a leaky gut syndrome and the like.

I'll leave it here for now, but it suffices to say that whatever macros I would suggest, my suggestion could never be fit for everyone, as you yourself have rightly stated, that this is a subjective matter, which proves that we humans can survive and adapt to a wide range of macros coming from all variety of food types.
 
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Can't we blame genetics for the subject's great natural physique? Making us all look bad here...... :)

I like what you're saying here Fadi, the body could then also create a rebound effect on protein allocation - perhaps once it starts using fuel, it prioritises that use over the repair function

Two points, one to further discussion, one to support your points
-Perhaps we aren't creating enough need for the repair function of protein - would a small period of greater intensity training help to shift the equilibrium back to 'repair and build'??
-The people giving us protein intake guidelines, are the people who have vested interests via the supplement industry
 
Good set of triceps on the native
Absolutely Mr. Darkoz. I believe that most people overly concern themselves with macros, when simply moving is what is often required and is often missing from the equation of (especially of) our modern daily life. You're 100% right that this native man has a good set of triceps on him, which to me indicates, not so much weight lifting exercises, but some sort of daily activity that requires the usage of his muscles. It could be climbing up or down a coconut tree, or the constant lifting of certain items, or simply rowing a boat on a daily basis going out fishing. The point I'm making is that the man is making a very good use of his slow carb diet, even though it's a high slow carb diet. So his insulin parameters would be near perfect, and his insulin sensitivity would be right on point, with no reason to gain excess weight. Furthermore, his clothing (or lack thereof), exposes him to a high level of vitamin D3, which in turn insures his levels of this crucial vitamin/hormone like in its actions is unlike ours, where most of us are in fact deficient in this crucial vitamin due to clothing and insufficient saturated fats like butter in our diets. He consumes no dairy, yet his bones (as well as those of his elders) are steady and strong. He consumes no grains, relying on tubers for his slow burning carbohydrates. He consumes no processed vegetable oils of any kind, ensuring he does not suffer from systemic or low grade inflammation, which leads to most all the chronic diseases we suffer from in our civilized world. We could learn a lot from such a primitive man, wouldn't you agree Darkoz?
 
Can't we blame genetics for the subject's great natural physique? Making us all look bad here...... :)

I like what you're saying here Fadi, the body could then also create a rebound effect on protein allocation - perhaps once it starts using fuel, it prioritises that use over the repair function

Two points, one to further discussion, one to support your points
-Perhaps we aren't creating enough need for the repair function of protein - would a small period of greater intensity training help to shift the equilibrium back to 'repair and build'??
-The people giving us protein intake guidelines, are the people who have vested interests via the supplement industry

It would be great if we can blame it on genetics, but we can't unfortunately :)! Seriously though, when such people move out from their pristine environment and begin to adopt a life style close to ours, they end up suffering from the same sort of health issues we're battling on a daily basis.

Sure, creating a need (a catalyst) if you like is paramount in our quest to building larger muscles. But still, we're limited in the rate we can build muscles irrespective of how hard we train. In fact, the heavier you lift, the harder you make it for yourself to add muscle mass. I know, it sounds counter-intuitive doesn't it! But we do have a mechanism in our body (just like that speed limiter on a V8 beast) that can do 300km plus, but has been limited to only do 250km/h thanks to our wonderful traffic laws! That mechanism uses a protein called GDF-8, you probably know it as Myostatin. I'll be writing about the ultimate way to build muscle soon, and lifting heavy is not on the radar. Back to creating a need for more protein though. I do agree that lifting weights does create a need for more protein consumption, the question is by how much would do we need to increase from what is required had we not placed our body under such stress. My hunch is not by that much more. Again, I see what my youngest daughter (of 1 and a half years young) is consuming and the rate in which she's growing, it's nothing like what the people with vested interests would have you believe we need to grow new tissue. If it seems like I'm knocking protein, I am not, far from it in fact. However this protein hype began back in the late 70s and early 80s way back when protein powders were made of egg whites etc. So yes, coming to your last point, someone does have a great vested interest in you and me believing we would suffer some dire consequences if we don't quickly (and blindly mind you) jump on their protein bandwagon.

Just in case some sponsors of this forum are reading what I'm writing, lest they misunderstand my point, I am the first one to recommend WPI for its many immune supportive qualities, which incidentally I have written about before on this forum. All I am saying is let us put things in perspective, and make up our macros based on our needs, and if that need requires supplementing with a protein powder due to our modern lifestyle, so be it. The world will not come to an end, and neither would our health for doing what we feel is best for ourselves on an individual level.
 
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Unfortunately 5 years after I was born, the state of wheat in the world took a drastic change for the worst, causing all sorts of issues due to the corruption of its protein structure to say the least. It has finally caught up with people's microbiome environment, where we now here of health issues we never heard before, such as a leaky gut syndrome and the like.
How interesting, I was speaking to a guy at work and he reckons the wheat flour used to make bread these days looks nothing like what it was 'back in the day'. And he can't eat bread, it gives him allergic reactions but as a kid he did and had no such symptoms. What happened to the state of wheat?

Similarly the food pyramid is confusing and a big mess. I mean, why recommend so much wheat and grains as it makes the macros totally whack and if I followed that to a tee I reckon I'll be dealing with more issues than just a distended gut!
 
I'm pretty sure that the "healthy eating pyramid" has changed quite a bit since the 90s one that had grains as the second highest part.
[MENTION=2727]Fadi[/MENTION]; that sounds an awful lot like having a 'paleo' diet, how do you differentiate?
 
I always enjoy reading your posts Fadi, thanks for sharing.

BTW, Whats the life expectancy of our friend on Kitava?
 
BTW, Whats the life expectancy of our friend on Kitava?

indigenous people actually live very long lives, hence the name "elder"
its white man coming into camp that passes on virus' their immune system hasn't evolved to fight is the killer, not their nutritional needs, or natural disease.

its the ancient "western" man that lived to 40, not true for indigenous, self sustaining communities.
 
indigenous people actually live very long lives, hence the name "elder"
its white man coming into camp that passes on virus' their immune system hasn't evolved to fight is the killer, not their nutritional needs, or natural disease.

its the ancient "western" man that lived to 40, not true for indigenous, self sustaining communities.

More rubbish.

'Infections, accidents, complications of pregnancy,and senescence are the most common causes of death inthis population. Life expectancy is estimated at “‘45 y fornewborns and an additional 25 y at age 50 y'.
http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/66/4/845.full.pdf

Despite a fair number of older residents, none of whom showed signs of dementia or poor memory, the only cases of sudden death the residents could recall were accidents such as drowning or falling from a coconut tree. Homicide also occured, often during conflicts over land or mates. Infections (primarily malaria), accidents, pregnancy complications, and old age were the dominant causes of death, which is in agreement with findings among other similar populations. Child mortality from malaria and other infections was relatively high, and the average lifespan was around 45 years.
http://www.staffanlindeberg.com/TheKitavaStudy.html

The term 'Elder' has nothing to do with reaching a specific age. The term 'Elder in hierarchical indigenous societies is a position of respect and authority.
 
I'm pretty sure that the "healthy eating pyramid" has changed quite a bit since the 90s one that had grains as the second highest part.
@Fadi ; that sounds an awful lot like having a 'paleo' diet, how do you differentiate?
I understand your question, however I'm not sure what exactly you're referring to. What sound a lot like a paleo diet sir? I'm a bit lost, forgive me.
 
I understand your question, however I'm not sure what exactly you're referring to. What sound a lot like a paleo diet sir? I'm a bit lost, forgive me.

the question I'm asking is, why not just say that you think people should eat paleo? does this diet have a point of difference to it? (not really animal meat I guess for a start)
 
the question I'm asking is, why not just say that you think people should eat paleo? does this diet have a point of difference to it? (not really animal meat I guess for a start)
Ok I get it now thanks. The simple answer is because I was not implying or suggesting that people should eat paleo. So if that was not my intention, then I could not have been thinking it bozo. And you're 100% right, in saying that this diet (the kitavan diet) is unlike the paleo, and not just because there is no animal meat (as in red meat) as to be found within the paleo, but more strikingly, the percentage of the protein and fat macros are way too low when compared with a paleo diet, which places a heavy emphasis on these two macros. So where one diet is very high in slow carbs (the kitavan), the paleo is nowhere as high or reliant in its daily energy consumption on that macronutrient.

By the way, I am not suggesting that people follow either of the above mentioned diets, I most certainly don't.
 
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Ok I get it now thanks. The simple answer is because I was not implying or suggesting that people should eat paleo. So if that was not my intention, then I could not have been thinking it bozo. And you're 100% right, in saying that this diet (the kitavan diet) is unlike the paleo, and not just because there is no animal meat (as in red meat) as to be found within the paleo, but more strikingly, the percentage of the protein and fat macros are way too low when compared with a paleo diet, which places a heavy emphasis on these two macros. So where one diet is very high in slow carbs (the kitavan), the paleo is nowhere as high or reliant in its daily energy consumption on that macronutrient.

By the way, I am not suggesting that people follow either of the above mentioned diets, I most certainly don't.

how does paleo have a macro's? was pretty sure its a lifestyle, not a macros to follow...

its the idea of eating whole foods, cooked. and fruit between hardy meals.
 
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