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If the shoulder is suspect then building strength is the goal.
and more importantly balanced strength between the antagonist.
so, if one was to be stupid enough to do a split routine then at least do a push/pull on the same day at the same intensity

Question for your silverback,

What is the negatives of a split routine?

After reading this thread i notice your negative towards it,

Cheers,
 
Question for your silverback,

What is the negatives of a split routine?

After reading this thread i notice your negative towards it,

Cheers,

I've made comments, many comments over the years, but in a nut-shell;

it's impossible to split the body as the system requires recovery as well as the body part worked, if you want to make a split routine work for you and your work rate is high, as in the intensity of work is high, you'd need to take steroids.
 
I've made comments, many comments over the years, but in a nut-shell;

it's impossible to split the body as the system requires recovery as well as the body part worked, if you want to make a split routine work for you and your work rate is high, as in the intensity of work is high, you'd need to take steroids.

I am trying to understand this comment - your saying if your on a high intensity split routine you will need to take steroids?

Even though generally with a split routine your giving your muscles more time to recover than say if you were on a more fullbody style split like 5x5 etc...
 
I never inderstood why beginners did anything other than full body.

Yea I started with 5x5 but very quickly moved into split/heavy duty style training - if I had my time again I would of done a good 12-18 months of training at least 5-6 days a week with a mix of heavy duty split and fullbody workouts....as a beginner frequency, intensity (of course) when it comes to training is key....
 
There's more than one way to skin a cat.
Lots of different training styles.

Totally.

i think for a well seasoned trainee a split type workout could work well, when I say split I mean a workout a full body workout with an emphasis on a particular area would work well.

What's a well seasoned trainee?

Someone who has worked out many years over 45 and relatively injury free.
 
Totally.

i think for a well seasoned trainee a split type workout could work well, when I say split I mean a workout a full body workout with an emphasis on a particular area would work well.

What's a well seasoned trainee?

Someone who has worked out many years over 45 and relatively injury free.

This makes totally no sense....lol sorry mate....
 
it's impossible to split the body as the system requires recovery as well as the body part worked, if you want to make a split routine work for you and your work rate is high, as in the intensity of work is high, you'd need to take steroids.
I am trying to understand this comment - your saying if your on a high intensity split routine you will need to take steroids?

Even though generally with a split routine your giving your muscles more time to recover than say if you were on a more fullbody style split like 5x5 etc...

There are two words here that are causing or that are the cause of this slight confusion as I see it. When Andy wrote his comment, he was careful to use the word "system". Even though he did not explain there and there what he was alluding to by his usage of this term, his overall comment made it crystal clear that he was referring to the nervous system and not the muscular system.

As you can see, Andy is focusing on the nerves, whilst Rugby88 is talking muscles.

So yes, if one was to train with high intensity on a split routine, even though as Rugby88 suggested that due to this routine being of the "split" type in comparison with a full body routine, one would suffer, not muscular wise, but rather overall nervous system wise, which would ultimately eat deep into one's ability to recover fully, unless one is using steroids in order to compensate for that lack of and much required overall recovery.
 
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There are two words here that are causing or that are the cause of this slight confusion as I see it. When Andy wrote his comment, he was careful to use the word "system". Even though he did not explain there and there what he was alluding to by his usage of this term, his overall comment made it crystal clear that he was referring to the nervous system and not the muscular system.

As you can see, Andy is focusing on the nerves, whilst Rugby88 is talking muscles.

So yes, if one was to train with high intensity on a split routine, even though as Rugby88 suggested that due to this routine being of the "split" type in comparison with a full body routine, one would suffer, not muscular wise, but rather overall nervous system wise, which would ultimately eat deep into one's ability to recover fully, unless one is using steroids in order to compensate for that lack of and much required overall recovery.

I personally believe from a nervous system point of view and a muscular point of view full body workouts - ie 5x5 are a lot more taxing than say a heavey duty 1 muscle per day split....that's just me though....

There are huge amounts of natural athletes that follow the heavy duty/maxot approach...def don't need steroids to follow these programs....I've never needed steroids to follow this approach for over 10 years either...
 
Ps totally get what your sayin n you know I love your work
Thank you sir, I also admire your discipline.

I find myself in agreement with you re the steroid issue. As I see it, one needs not make use of exogenous hormones unless one wishes to take his performance to a level where steroids reside. There, it's a different playing field with respect to all human aspects. You may note that in my comment, I used the word "ultimately" to refer to a higher level of achievement. Because ultimately, for as long as we are training smartly, progress would tag along. That was the physical. From a psychological point of view, some of us are not satisfied with normal human progress, and desire, (some would say crave/need) the attainment of such a high level, that only steroids would be qualified to deliver and perhaps satisfy that sought after demand.
 
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Might be a rookie question here fadi, but you mention that the nervous system can't cope, and,recovery won't take place unless steroids are taken.

i assume you are not inferring steroids bolster the nervous system, but rather just referring to the increased protein synthesis / Mtor?

with the nervous system not being able to recover, are you meaning it is more heavily weighted to the symathetic system as opposed to parasympathetic system? If so does this mean the adrenal glands are producing too much cortisol?

is that the idea?
 
Might be a rookie question here fadi, but you mention that the nervous system can't cope, and,recovery won't take place unless steroids are taken.

Hello Dave,

There are two parts to your question above, so I'll deal with it in that fashion.

A) The nervous system can not cope with constant high intensity training (neural based training / strength / power) and would need more time to recover than the musculature system, with its workout based or focused more on the metabolic pathways to achieve muscle hypertrophy.

B) So just because the nervous system can not recover properly if constant FOR or NFOR is applied, there's always one card up the coach's / trainee's sleeve before resorting to the use of anabolic / androgenic steroids to help with the process of recovery. That card is periodisation. Overtraining is virtually non-existent, even amongst elite athletes, thanks to the proper application of FOR (functional overreaching).


So in a nutshell, people who apply high neural based training with a total disregard to periodisation, would either have to ease off (through employing the periodisation system into their training), or resort to steroids if they don't follow such a system. The alternative would be too many plateaus of the unforeseen kind. And that's what we witness often in many bodybuilding gyms around the world. Bodybuilders not making progress, or getting the results they feel they ought to get based on their efforts in the gym.

Because of the above, a new style of bodybuilding training emerged on the seen called, instinctive training. What this basically means is that, you push when your body is willing and capable of pushing (hard), and you back off when you don't feel as sharp or your muscles are not so tight and full with glycogen etc. In other words, you are a servant to your plateaus, and your instinctive training is governed and based on their occurrences, instead of planning your path and the way you should feel at any given moment in time.
 
I'm not to sure about this overtraining the "nervous system" as it either works or it doesn't, what I'm on about is the system, as in the body, the whole enchilada, the machine to which the the nervous system is apart of.

a system so complex, that it is impossible to understand fully.
 
I'm not to sure about this overtraining the "nervous system".
I know about it from first hand experience through NFOR (non-functional overreaching). It's not a place you wanna be for too long, but it's a place you'd wanna visit in order to appreciate all that is below such a high level of training. Again, I'm talking neural as opposed to metabolic type of training.

I don't think I mentioned overtraining of the nervous system, overreaching yes, but not overtraining. Overtraining is not a state I believe in as much as I believe in under-recovering. Overtraining or under-recovering?
 
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Fadi, you didn't really explain (or I didn't pick it up) how the nervous system if effected from a physiological perspective.

what are the changes, and the parts of the system effected.

as per my post, are you,referring to the system moving to symathetic and cortisol?
 
Fadi, you didn't really explain (or I didn't pick it up) how the nervous system if effected from a physiological perspective.

what are the changes, and the parts of the system effected.

as per my post, are you,referring to the system moving to symathetic and cortisol?
Yes, I am saying that due to the perceived threat / stress (that is the high intensity neural type of training mainly), your SNS comes into play in order to control the situation/threat if you like. And again, you're 100% on the money when you mentioned the catabolic hormone cortisol responding to such a threat, in addition, your adrenal glands would be further stimulated to release that fight or flight chemical we know as adrenalin. The more of this catabolic hormones, the less protein synthesis and more glycogen degradation through the conversion of muscle glycogen into glucose for muscle fuel / energy.

I would not be a bit surprised if your PNS also suffers due to the level of stress / or the time taken to recover from such a high level of stress. So the digestion of your food, as well as your sleeping pattern would also suffer, or at least be harder to manage.
 
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