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Whos made the change to strength style routines? An anything you have noticed? Body shape etc.
 
no, its all about looks for me, strength is a by product of looking gooooooooooood baby, yeah..........

Plenty of calf work and curls for me.
 
I'm not generally strong but people always seem to think I could lift more. I probably could lift more, I've never tried to do a personal best in bench or squat.
It's more about keeping in shape for me and trying not to get injured so I can train consistently.
 
I was thinking about taking a break from competing, have been for a while now. I'd be focusing on bodybuilding I guess. There would be nothing different in my training
Bodybuilders are just powerlifters that diet at the end of the day, or rather a powerlifter is a bodybuilder that choses whether or not to diet lol

I think Polke did pyramid training when he trained for BB. On bench he'd ramp up to a few heavy sets of 1-3 reps then do loads of drop sets repping it out. A typical BB routine.
Now training for powerlifting, Boris Sheiko has him doing the exact same thing on Wednesdays for bench

I made a similar point the other day about the body part split as well. It's no different to a powerlifter training each lift each day. Shoulders/biceps, legs/abs, chest/triceps, back - Pretty typical for a split and can be focused around volume or intensity to shift the focus between hypertrophy and strength

Tom Platz did 50x315lb at the end of his squatting workout. He'd start with a plate, do 10 reps, add a plate, 20 reps, add a plate, 20 reps and so on until he hit some heavy shit then backed down. He squatted 240kg for more than 20 reps and could squat well in excess of 600lb
In fact pretty much all the dudes from that era "got it"
 
rubbish, there are plenty of bb's who train nothing like powerlifters.

for many bb's, all they have in common with powerlifters is that they lift weights.

I think what you mean is that the basic principles of weight training are pursued by a number of sports, including bb and powerlifting.

A fair dinkum bb is concerned not just with size, but proportion and symmetry. these factors equally critical.

A powerlifter is concerned with lifting heavier weights. This may result in certain exercises being done rather differently from say a bb seeking to work the targeted muscle. That is why many very strong powerlifters look nothing like bb's, although there are some exceptions. Powerlifters are concerned with using their levers to advantage in order to maximise weight lifted, although basic training (assistance work) with strict form may also be important in terms of general muscular development.

Now I can remember Gary Lewer, champion bb, and Bill Lindon, champion powerlifter, both training at findlays. They looked and trained rather different. Hence, they achieved results specific to their sport.

That is why many champion powerlifters don't do that well when they diet and compete in bb. different forms of training, although some may mix between the two quite well.

My belief is that there is little need for a bb to train like a powerlifter to get results.

I have seen many people succeed in bb that never trained anything like a powerlifter, including never doing deadlifts. Some never went heavy in any exercise, or even improved to win better shows when they abandoned heavy weights altogether.

In powerlifting skill of lifting heavy weights is critical; in bb no such need.
 
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Gary Lewer used GH, so your argument is invalid as it changes everything
Look at the pre-GH era. The top BBers were mainly lean strength athletes. Guys like Franco Columbu, Frank Zane, Arnold, Benny Podda, Marvin Eder,
Zabo Koszewski, Ed Corney, Chuck Sipes, John Defendis, Steve Michalik, John Grimek (squatted 695lb at age 70), Jeff King, Ricky Bruch, Ken Patera, fuck even Kirk Karwoski

The ability to lift heavy weights is critical in bodybuilding lol. They don't test maxes often no. But you need every bit as much motor coordination because a powerlifter just practices singles more and that is it.

I know [MENTION=3627]Silverback[/MENTION]; agrees on this
 
'Gary Lewer used GH, so your argument is invalid as it changes everything'.

Oh, so that changes everything.

Does that mean that your points mean nothing because the others take anabolic steroids?

BTW, I am also referring to many others who I know never took HGH.

I will stand by my statement; you do not need to lift heavy weights to be successful in bb, although lifting heavy with good form is critical. That is why Lewer still got excellent results by training with an emphasis on proper form rather than heaving weights up as a powerlifter would.

 
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I was thinking about taking a break from competing, have been for a while now. I'd be focusing on bodybuilding I guess. There would be nothing different in my training
Bodybuilders are just powerlifters that diet at the end of the day, or rather a powerlifter is a bodybuilder that choses whether or not to diet lol

I think Polke did pyramid training when he trained for BB. On bench he'd ramp up to a few heavy sets of 1-3 reps then do loads of drop sets repping it out. A typical BB routine.
Now training for powerlifting, Boris Sheiko has him doing the exact same thing on Wednesdays for bench

I made a similar point the other day about the body part split as well. It's no different to a powerlifter training each lift each day. Shoulders/biceps, legs/abs, chest/triceps, back - Pretty typical for a split and can be focused around volume or intensity to shift the focus between hypertrophy and strength

Tom Platz did 50x315lb at the end of his squatting workout. He'd start with a plate, do 10 reps, add a plate, 20 reps, add a plate, 20 reps and so on until he hit some heavy shit then backed down. He squatted 240kg for more than 20 reps and could squat well in excess of 600lb
In fact pretty much all the dudes from that era "got it"

I suppose you need to remember that there are a few different classes in most BB feds too. Some aren't only looking for mass and conditioning.

I agree with Spartacus. There are plenty of guys who are strong who do bodybuilding but never really work the lower "strength" rep ranges.
 
No Spartacus because steroids don't change the rules at all. I don't know why I need to keep repeating this. GH is magic, it just grows you. All you need to do is get a pump and leave. Look at Phil Heath or Kai Greens training videos online and you'll see this. Many powerlifters do your typical bro-split. Here is the training of Jennifer Thompson:

Day 1: Chest
Day 2: Off
Day 3: Back, Biceps, and Calves
Day 4: Off
Day 5: Shoulders and Triceps
Day 6: Off
Day 7: Legs
Day 8: Off

"I do a 12 week workout that starts with exercises at 10 reps and works it way down to 5 reps. I use this to build up my base strength."

Jeremy Hoornstra:
Monday - Back, cardio (night)
Tuesday - Chest, Traps and Forearms (night)
Wednesday - Bi's, cardio (night)
Thursday - Shoulders, calves and abs (night)
Friday - Tri's, cardio (night)
Saturday - Legs

Flat Bench Press
225 x 15
315 x 10
405 x 10
495 x 8
585 x 3
635 x 2
405 to failure


Incline Bench Press
315 x 10
405 x 8
495 x 5
495 x 5


Incline Dumbbell Fly's
140's to failure for 3 sets (highest dumbbells the gym has)


Flat Cable Fly's
Weight stack for 10 reps, 3 sets


Hammer Strength Chest Press
6 - 45's each side to failure, 2 sets


Scott Mendlesons training was too long to post here so I put it in a pastie:
#9125862 - Pastie

All of these people go heavy for a few sets then bro it down on the assistance. Here is Ed Coan's bench program: #9125864 - Pastie
It's not unusual to talk about "developing strength" and then "demonstrating" it. All these dudes did bodybuilding and started going heavy as they got closer to meet day. Bottom line is if you look like this, you're going to be a strong motherfucker. Even Kai Green incline benches 500lb for reps. Stan Efferding is on record saying that the only difference between the bodybuilding and powerlifting training he does is the number of reps

chucksipesbwsm.jpg
 
Sorry Oni, you have said nothing to convince me. My belief is you do not need to train like a powerlifter to be a successful or vice-versa.

Both bb and powerlifters do weight training, and that is where the common link ends.
 
and another thing, I benched more than a guy who came 6th in Mr Olympia at the same gym, but I looked like a tooth pick next to him.

So explain that?

Now, I know you will always no better, but I can point t knowing many champion bb's (at least national standard) that had no interest in heavy weights. Gary Lewer is just the one who achieved most success training with lighter weights, but still trained with a lot of intensity.

Problem with you Oni is that you view intensity and power expression in terms of weight lifted, but who is to deny that a bb working on form and lighter weights is no applying more force in terms of contracting the muscle.

It is like when I do stepups. I can do heavy weights and cheat, or I can slow movement and push through the leg in a strict way. Now I know which way is more beneficial in terms of training purpose.

Also, with my struggle to get leg strength up, I can easily get more weight with squats by using more back and momentum and so on, as I have done recently. But when in go back to leg press or leg extension, I observe much less strength increase because I do these exercise always in a controlled way.
 
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Ever notice how some dudes can just place a bar on theirs backs and squat 10 reps for 200kg after a month of lifting?
what does this tell you?
 
I didn't say you needed to Spartacus, I just said the training between the two was so fucking similar it didn't even warrant discussion
A good powerlifter will often train exactly like a bber after their sport training. Feeling the muscles, lighter weights, perfect technique etc

Explain that you benched more than a guy that placed at the Olympia? GH, I already explained this
 
Perfect levers, and may be suited to powerlifting or weight lifting. but there is also a skill element. I see guys all the time who would lift more than me if they could be bothered with a few technique adjustments.

But in bb, no matter what your levers are, you have to strive for muscle growth. hence, I argue many weighs to skin a cat in terms of appropriate intensity, and this will never be quantified alone by how much you lift.

As Lewer suggests, of course heavier weights are important, but form need not be sacrificed.
 
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I didn't say you needed to Spartacus, I just said the training between the two was so fucking similar it didn't even warrant discussion
A good powerlifter will often train exactly like a bber after their sport training. Feeling the muscles, lighter weights, perfect technique etc

Explain that you benched more than a guy that placed at the Olympia? GH, I already explained this

Oni, do you reckon your legs would look like a bb if you went on GH? Your rants about GH, which supposedly legitimises your points, are really quite silly.
 
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To add (and it's pretty simple) more often than not a lifter is not strong because of the lifting program but moreso in spite of it.

Because of genetics; mind, tendon lenghts, size of muscle belly, leverages, motor skills, body shape, good looks and the ability to recover quick will ultimatly dictate how well they respond to exercise.

Doesnt matter whether one follows the spurious options from; Crossfit to Vince Gironda, progress biulds strength and size.
How quickly versus how safe is the key to this.
 
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