tom bro
PTC Gold Coast
I hope you took my advice to NOT run digit at first!!
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I hope you took my advice to NOT run digit at first!!
Sticky
Active member
How's the gym coming along for next weekend mate? Me and Dan will be down there Wed Night if ya need a hand with anything leading up to the comp
Gym is good. Finishing 3 mono's for customers today/tonight then trying to get one done during the week to use at states.
bozodos
Member
yeah I had read that the Westside program is really geared towards equipped lifters.
What's wrong with 5/3/1 for an intermediate program? I've seen others use it with success, the devil seems to be in the type and amount of assistance work to go with the main lifts though. There's a spreadsheet getting around to take most of the thinking out of the programming for the less mathematically inclined.
I assume the OP is after an intermediate program that is?
What's wrong with 5/3/1 for an intermediate program? I've seen others use it with success, the devil seems to be in the type and amount of assistance work to go with the main lifts though. There's a spreadsheet getting around to take most of the thinking out of the programming for the less mathematically inclined.
I assume the OP is after an intermediate program that is?
0ni
Registered Rustler
5/3/1 was designed to be an easy to recover from program for a broken middle aged man
It is by design a low risk, low reward program
What the fuck is a "novice" or "intermediate" program anyway? What the hell does that even mean?
Why do you need to take a spreadsheet to the gym in order to get stronger lol
It is by design a low risk, low reward program
What the fuck is a "novice" or "intermediate" program anyway? What the hell does that even mean?
Why do you need to take a spreadsheet to the gym in order to get stronger lol
SentCan you please re-email me?
I'll get to it at some stage today
bozodos
Member
you don't take the spreadsheet to the gym - it's just the method of programming. It's easy to be edgy and bash on well known programs that obviously work without any substance to back it up, 0ni pls go.
5/3/1 is designed to be a program that keeps on scaling upwards, and I personally have found the 'start too light' ethos to be sound advice. Obviously strength coaches might have their own opinions on what is more effective. I'd say that this sort of programming is aimed at people like me who train in commercial gyms or at home.
A beginner program generally has all of the main lifts 3x a week (due to light weight and ability to recover quickly from light weight) vs an intermediate to advanced routine where the main lifts (or specific body parts) are only being trained once a week, in this case with the user's own choice of assistance work depending on goals etc. Generally also in a beginner routine, you're aiming to put more weight on the bar with every workout, vs every week for an intermediate to every month for an advanced program.
vonfram88
Active member
Too hard for this broken middle aged man. I can get low risk low reward with instinctive training.
It doesn't really matter what approach is used if you are in this for the long haul; fads however are unsustainable especially for natty trainers.
-work at 70-90% always
-sometimes work at 95 - 100%
-lower back and legs take time to recover and are easily overtrained (a term unfamiliar to PED users).
-upper body takes less time to recover
-if you're older, your body will tell you how many sets you have left
-food; if you don't eat you don't shit if you don't shit you die
jj80
Member
Haha, I took your advice that I'd kill myself on legs doing the leg days (I do my own 5x5 stuff instead), but I am doing the bench days. The volume feels fine. I am 100% recovered between workouts. I can beat the shit out of my upper body and it grows. I am actually adding in some overhead pressing to one day, slowly.
[MENTION=4221]Sticky[/MENTION]; I'm not sure which variant I'm running, it starts with 50 chins and finishes with 70. I'm using 25kg plates for the weighted chins, it feels good.
0ni
Registered Rustler
It's in the first chapter of the book why the program was made in the first place.
That definition of beginner, intermediate and advanced is just silly. I can think of many examples of routines that would crush a novice or intermediate where weight is added multiple times a week. Likewise the opposite with routines for low level lifters where the weights stay the same for a whole 12 weeks. It means nothing. People need to stop thinking "oh I'm "advanced", I need this training program now" it's just silly. People on reddit follow this and I guess that's why there are legions of strong people on there, all finally trying to get their shitfest of a squat up to 3 plates
Yeah I am a big fan of instinctive training. Doesn't matter if you're natty or not IMO. I know I can't go balls out and run head first into a meet. I used to be able to but not any more lol. But it's good to do briefly. The principles you listed are what I adhere to personally as well.
bozodos
Member
The idea of an intermediate or advanced program is that you progress onto it once you hit the goals of the beginner program. What you're talking about sounds like people who go through programs for the sake of it.
I've seen so many people use and continually fail with "instinctive" training that I think it really is BS. Without programming and some kind of routine, you're not going to get where you want to be (outliers excluded of course).
5/3/1 can be as hard as you want it to be - see the BBB assistance template. You're right though, there is some more hardcore stuff in Beyond 5/3/1.
I've seen so many people use and continually fail with "instinctive" training that I think it really is BS. Without programming and some kind of routine, you're not going to get where you want to be (outliers excluded of course).
5/3/1 can be as hard as you want it to be - see the BBB assistance template. You're right though, there is some more hardcore stuff in Beyond 5/3/1.
0ni
Registered Rustler
People fail with all kinds of training
The common factor is that they simply are not trying hard enough, or do not want it bad enough
The BBB template is a walk in the park lol. If you want something bad enough then you'll do what it takes to make it work. People are not machines there is no way that some program or ebook is going to be optimal for you. If it was that simple there wouldn't need to be a new ebook released every month with the next best thing. There are a few principles that all these programs adhere to, you can adhere to them and tailor it to your own needs
Dunno what you're on about when you're saying my examples are people just doing programs for the sake of it, think you made that one up
The common factor is that they simply are not trying hard enough, or do not want it bad enough
The BBB template is a walk in the park lol. If you want something bad enough then you'll do what it takes to make it work. People are not machines there is no way that some program or ebook is going to be optimal for you. If it was that simple there wouldn't need to be a new ebook released every month with the next best thing. There are a few principles that all these programs adhere to, you can adhere to them and tailor it to your own needs
Dunno what you're on about when you're saying my examples are people just doing programs for the sake of it, think you made that one up
bozodos
Member
The only way you're going to get the absolute most 'optimal' method is from going to somewhere like a PTC with an actual strength coach working with you. For the rest of us, it's a 'best fit' situation.
The actual reason that there is a new 'latest and greatest' fitness ebook released every month is that there is no money in telling people to do squat,dl,ohp,bench,bb curl for so many reps / sets 3x a week. Look at the plethora of bullshit that comes from Bodybuilding.com for example. Or the prevalence of alternative diets / exercise machines / group fitness classes. Even Crossfit now has ripoffs.
I'm saying that if people are doing advanced programs (according to your 'le leddit' examples) and can't squat 3 plate, then they obviously picked retarded programs or did not follow what they started with correctly.
The actual reason that there is a new 'latest and greatest' fitness ebook released every month is that there is no money in telling people to do squat,dl,ohp,bench,bb curl for so many reps / sets 3x a week. Look at the plethora of bullshit that comes from Bodybuilding.com for example. Or the prevalence of alternative diets / exercise machines / group fitness classes. Even Crossfit now has ripoffs.
I'm saying that if people are doing advanced programs (according to your 'le leddit' examples) and can't squat 3 plate, then they obviously picked retarded programs or did not follow what they started with correctly.
Goosey
.
If you use your instincts to lift heavy weight, you wouldn't.
while it is true that an experienced trainee will eventually develop a "feeling" with regards to working out it's got nothing to do with instinct.
someone once said;
"You've actually got to work in direct opposition to your instincts.
if you followed your instincts, you'd do a number of things; eat as much as possible, sleep whenever possible, root around, shit wherever, lie, brag, steal, run away from danger or fight if forced to, you'd avoid any form of physical labour, but you wouldn't lift weights.
The process of education is nothing more or less an attempt to overcome the instinct.
during exercise instincts are actually telling you to stop. If you follow your instincts exercise will be terminated far short to the point that would have produced any worthwhile results...."