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Comments welcome - Carb Cycling

Carb free vegetables like brassica family, spinach etc contain 100% of everything you need. EVERYTHING

Plenty of people have performed at an elite level on a ketogenic diet. Fred Hatfield for example. There is no reason to eat carbohydrate if you do not wish to and the effect restriction has on your insulin sensitivity has plenty of health benefits. If you wish, I can link plenty of sources and citations for this- there would be pages and pages of them




Agreed with oni here but i can also show citations on a carb rich diet will provide arguably better results, i think the higher Volume the more carbs you need, if its strength bases (low reps, heavy weight, long rest period) then you can get away with a keto approach quite comfortably
 
Agreed with oni here but i can also show citations on a carb rich diet will provide arguably better results, i think the higher Volume the more carbs you need, if its strength bases (low reps, heavy weight, long rest period) then you can get away with a keto approach quite comfortably

I am interested in seeing the citations on a carb rich diet providing better fat loss results
 
I have used carb cycling for the past 3 months. Yielded some good results.
Down to 6% bf as a result.

Low carb days 50grams high fats high protein
Med carb days 100-120grams high fats high protein
High carb days 250grams very low fats high protein
 
Well, I'm not really debating that at all.
I was talking about carbs having some sort of performance benefit that requires you to have them high at all times

Now when trying to grow, especially when not being fat, they are important. But for fat loss? No not at all. I don't lift any different with full glycogen levels either, I notice my best sessions are the few days before I schedule a refeed
 
And lol...

How are your performances relative to this conversation?

Edit- kinda straying off topic though, my original point being that carb cycling will make no difference to body composition, so it's more sustainable long term to keep them high, meaning hit protein and fat targets, and fill the remaining calories from carbs, I think you've taken my point out of context
 
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He doesn't mention high carb being better for performance or better for fat loss
You said "keep carbs as high as possible without sacrificing calorie goals would be a more optimal way of going about it"

Well what makes something more optimal? It either increases rate of fat loss or increases performance. There are no other factors that could make it more optimal. You then said "Performance, higher micronutrient values, a lot more benefits than keeping them as low as possible"

Well again, what performance benefit? Which micronutrients require carbohydrate intake?
 
Long term dietary adherence as a result of not going without and not binging???? Sounds pretty optimal...

The article clearly states the carb group lost more fat...

And having carbs in the system as opposed to being depleted over a long period of time is better for performance LONG TERM, is really a no brainer, I'm not talking about 1 or 2 sessions for an enhanced athlete here
 
Long term dietary adherence as a result of not going without and not binging???? Sounds pretty optimal...

The article clearly states the carb group lost more fat...

And having carbs in the system as opposed to being depleted over a long period of time is better for performance LONG TERM, is really a no brainer, I'm not talking about 1 or 2 sessions for an enhanced athlete here

You're not reading it right. Both groups ate the same calories and macros, just one group ate the carbs at night

Please link to citation that long term carbohydrate restriction is bad for performance. Fred Hatfield seemed to do alright out of it, so does Greg Nuckols, Darilyn Doddy and Jamie Caporosso
 
Na I'll give u that, I didn't re read it before I linked, I linked the wrong article.. My bad

I've read it 100's of times regarding performance, articles written by the leaders in the topic.. Obviously there is always exceptions to that, there always will be, but most will find that to be the case... I can't be arsed lfinding it to link you, but feel welcome to read more stuff by some of these smarter guys.. I'm going now, I have training and family which are more constructive things for me to spend my time on..
Good night Jeffrey
 
That's fine bro
But whenever you feel like backing up your comments with actual evidence, I'll be ready to read it
 
http://www.biolayne.com/nutrition/b...rate-metabolism-what-intake-is-right-for-you/

As far as the performance conversation is concerned, you've kinda taken a lot more than I really meant by it, but fair enough, I said it, I have read countless times on blogs by guys like Layne, berto, Eric, Alan, and other guys who are leading the field at the moment that long term a higher carb intake will have more positive effects on training performance than keto or very low carb diets, but I guess that's coming down to what I want to believe versus what you want to believe
 
Is there not a better way to explain this than 25 minutes of Layne Norton
I'll get back to you when I watch this lol
 
Man I can't believe you trolled me into watching 25 minutes of this.

He says that normal levels of insulin, it makes no difference in anabolism and CHO+PRO is marginally better than PRO alone, for MPS. Then he says there is no benefit after 30g of CHO post workout
Then when he talks about keto, he says that keto wins every time when it comes to fat loss. And when it comes to the deficit alone but high protein, there was no difference between keto and non-keto and that it's the high protein part that's important.
Then he says that basically, it boils down to personal preference and to reduce carbohydrate over time because it makes breaking through sticking points easier

In layman terms, you wasted 25 minutes of my time for no reason. Cheers
 
And I linked it, because the papers are at the bottom..

Keto wins over food pyramid diet, not a higher protein higher carb diet... And that long term low carb is bad for your metabolism, and will make future fat loss harder

Go back to taking photos of yourself on your bed dude, I'm done with this stupid conversation
 
Not trying to start anything but why would keto be bad for the metabolism over a long period of time? especially if your having refeeds once or twice a week - but even then all your doing is simply replacing carbs as the main fuel source for fat - what do carbs do for the metabolism to keep it kicking along over the long term that protein or fat doesnt do?

Wouldnt dieting as a whole simply be bad for the metabolism in the long term - being below maintenance for extended periods of time? Not a matter of if your calories are coming in from protein/fat or a mix of protein/fat/carbs?

But for example if someone was at maintenance level or even bulking using keto - how would that be bad and/or different to have carbs in your diet for the metabolism?

I think maybe we need to be looking at dieting/extreme dieting (i.e bodybuilding prep for a show style dieting) to be bad in the long term for the metabolism and of course general health - because you are dropping calories.
 
Swervyn-Ervyn post the exact sentence Layne uses to say that keto dieting is "bad for your metabolism" because you're obviously hearing something completely different to me. Also post the lines in the study that show that high carb / high protein was better than keto. Because I am obviously missing this completely after having read the full paper. The paper itself is even titled "Ketogenic low-carbohydrate diets have no metabolic advantage over nonketogenic low-carbohydrate diets". Mind explaining where high carb comes into this?
 
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