idea of drug tested gyms

spartacus said:

well you would reduce your scope for potential membership, given that 80% of gyms have such an agreement, and most members surveyed supported the scheme.

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Can you elaborate on this further please? Is this FACT or did you just throw this out there?

I cant think of a gym I have ever signed up to that ever had any rules about drugs in the membership forms etc.

well i would be telling the gym to go fuck them selves , no bloody way would i subject my self to such testing

it would be like a night club asking for testing of speed/eccies/ before you can enter the club

no, the societal attitude to drug use will need guidelines for what is an illegal PEDS, common sense WADA code would be used, although it could be extended or narrowed.

I don't expect this forum's attitudes to replicate more important societal attitudes; I am just interested.

It would be up to policy makers to test the waters.

spartacus said:

well you would reduce your scope for potential membership, given that 80% of gyms have such an agreement, and most members surveyed supported the scheme.

It would be a bad business decision if the same public attitudes were replicated here, but that would be your choice.

you cant really suppose anything until attitudes are actually tested by proper surveys. My gut feeling is that the same attitudes against drug use will prevail here too. In fact, I will be on it.

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So MOST members of drug tested gyms supported it........... Of course they do lol, thats why they are members.

If you surveyed the entire gym industry, I wonder how much teh results would vary.

Also. was the survey anonymous? That would make a HUGE difference.

Most people training in gyms in Denmark support the scheme. It has been a success, although now there is greater attention being given to gyms that do not cooperate.

Testing for drugs at nightclubs is of no interest to me; it is another issue.

sticky not sure what you are on about. of course most people support it. They choose to train in such gyms, while the minority chooses to train in gyms with no testing. There were also community wide surveys. the facts speak for themselves.

In Australia, you wont know until surveys are done, but I am confident most will want to choose in drug free gyms. what will matter is whether they support the proposal for all gyms and feds to declare their hand. I would hope they do.

spartacus said:

Testing for drugs at nightclubs is of no interest to me; it is another issue.

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How is it a different issue? The only reason for the testing in the first place is because they are illegal, I cannot think of any other reason why you would want to be testing for any kind of drugs unless the people involved are competing in some kind of federation or sporting governing body. Which the average joe training in a commercial gym is not.

I get what you are saying, but focus here is on PEDs.

I am not sure if the danish experience links both

And if you don't go to a tested gym will you'll be classed a drug taker weather you do or don't.

Same as when you compete in non tested feds..... And it sucks.

But such is life.

spartacus said:

I know I am going to annoy some, but I am interested to see people's response to the following: Australian gyms being forced to have an agreement with drug testing agencies and signage about whether their members can be tested for PEDS, as is the case elsewhere.

Just interested in hearing opinions given I have submitted an article to a journal on the case of powerlifting, another govt failure in terms of drug testing.

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Maybe not the best topic to wade into straight up, but here's my take.

Non-competition PEDs use (much like recreational drug use absent any resulting harm) is a victimless crime. If you want to enforce PEDs restrictions through gyms, you're moral-policing, which I don't think is a good thing. When you can show widespread harm resulting from PEDs use that cannot be addressed on a more selective basis (ie by barring members who acted aggressively toward other patrons) then you might have an argument that it's beneficial.

You say that gyms will have the option to participate in the scheme or not and that participating gyms will pick up the tab. I don't know how much testing costs but I suspect it aint cheap. This will make participating gyms noticeably more expensive (or less profitable). From a business perspective, I suspect the cost (of testing and of lost members like myself who feel the imposition to be unreasonable) to be greater than the profits lost missing out on members who would only join a PED-free(tm) gym. Passing the cost on means losing some members to gyms with lower overheads/rates.

Personally, I would avoid a PED-testing gym on principle. I have a problem with aggressive assholes, not PED users and I suspect most people would agree. Ask most people "would you prefer to train in a drug-free gym" and you might see a lot of positive responses. Ask them if they'd pay for it and I suspect you'll see a lot of those fall away.

Just out of interest, where are you pulling your facts/figures from? I can't find any references to drug-testing schemes in private gyms in Denmark.

Funny reading this thread, and pretty much everyone here knows my anti steroid stance, and I do not take or use any illegal drugs what so ever, not recreational drugs and not performance enhancing drugs, don't even smoke.

I do have a beer or three every few weeks when I go out to the pub to catch up with mates.

I also get random drug tested at work, but that has not affected or modified my behaviour, as again I am anti drug of any kind even prescription drugs are a last resort for me.

But I can not see why anyone would support drug testing in a gym, what does it have to do with anyone else what someone else does?? Why would I care if the guy training next to me used performance enhancing drugs to achieve what he/she wants. Makes no difference to anyone else.

Personally I would not support a drug tested gym.

If you said to drug test athletes competing I would be all for it, as I hate to see anyone cheating and gain an unfair advantage in competition.

This may seem like a stupid question but I don't think it has been asked yet.

Why?

why?

I have a few reasons, but wont say here for fear for offending some.

Of course, I if I submit to an international journal I have evidence.

http://www.dopingautoriteit.nl/media/files/Strategy_for_Stopping_Steroids_Report_WEB.pdf

would this be to attract the large proportion (?) of the gym population that don't want to be in the same room as grunting roid monkeys? (a few comments from (female) friends recently about how they dislike how the "puffy" boys act in their gyms )
then again, not all roid monkeys are fuckwits, and not all fuckwits are on roids...

or is it just a moral crusade? (Aus is good at them)

spartacus said:

why?

I have a few reasons, but wont say here for fear for offending some.

Of course, I if I submit to an international journal I have evidence.

http://www.dopingautoriteit.nl/media/files/Strategy_for_Stopping_Steroids_Report_WEB.pdf

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This report is ridiculous and extremely biased, it was put together by 'Anti Doping Denmark' themselves.
Some of the claims are laughable.

It is generally recognised that the use of steroids in connection with regular training results in a more muscular body and in- creased aggressiveness, a short fuse, lack of impulse control and reduced empathy are some of the side-effects.

In addition, studies have shown that criminals use AAS in connection with criminal acts due to the above-mentioned properties. Today, it is standard practice in most countries to test for the influence of alcohol and/or stimu- lants and drugs, especially in connection with traffic violations, but also in connection with arrests for violence.
Despite the connection between the use of AAS and criminal acts no tests for AAS are normally performed in these situations.

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spartacus said:

why?

I have a few reasons, but wont say here for fear for offending some.

Of course, I if I submit to an international journal I have evidence.

http://www.dopingautoriteit.nl/media/files/Strategy_for_Stopping_Steroids_Report_WEB.pdf

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Cool, although I can find no reference to the following:

- Proportion of commercial fitness centres (ie those with a choice, as distinct from sport-association-affiliated fitness centres) who have voluntarily entered into the scheme.

- Data regarding the reception of the scheme among members of fitness centres who have and have not voluntarily entered into the scheme.

- Membership trends since the adoption/non-adoption of the scheme.

I also noticed this:

. The scheme
makes it a legal requirement for fitness centres to signal whether
or not they cooperate with Anti Doping Denmark regarding
doping control. Fitness centres must clearly indicate with a
happy smiley or a frowning smiley at their entrance (and on
their website, if applicable) whether they carry out doping
control

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If this doesn't show an attempt at manufacturing bias through rhetoric, I don't know what does.

While you're correct about the single study indicating Denmark's prevailing attitude opposes use of PEDs, I can't find the study itself and it's not useful without knowing population size and selection methods or survey wording.

As a public policy scholar, I am merely seeking to advise govt of latest ideas if they are really serious in tackling the use of illegal PEDs in sport.

The case of powerlifting over the last 20 years highlights another govt policy failure that need not happen if they had utilised the latest ideas.

I am not interested in attacking the morality of anyone, just merely documenting what is happening in the world.

Yes, I wish there was no illegal PED use now, but not naive enough to suggest that the system will ever be perfect or will stop everyone cheating.

of course, there is a degree of coercion through smiley faces; it is called smart public policy.

People still have choice though.

I wouldn't worry too much; doubt anything would happen in Australia, a country well behind best practice. They just think they lead the world.

Hoping it will be published, will send article to the minister of sport though; some of the Coalition are already aware of my work, so I hope they read it.

Darkoz, but policy is being proven successful, so how is the Danish body useless? of course, they don't get all calls right, who does?

I dont use PEDs or any illegal drugs (regularly drug tested for work) but if I got tapped on the shoulder at gym to provide a drug test that would be the end of my membership at that gym... Drug testing in a work context is to ensure safety - this suggestion is just nanny state crap.

yep, the state should just get out of the way and let everyone take whatever they want. Is that what you are saying Warby?

I suppose Denmark has no reason to do anything.

BTW, reference to the report provides only a couple of paragraphs in my article. The article focuses on powerlifting in Australia. It is more about how to ensure all powerlifting feds are tested, and why govt policy has been a failure for two decades in regard to that sport.