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lol @ Mehdi not being bigger because he doesn't take steroids

RyanF said:
I don't think either SS or SL5x5 are particularly good programs (mostly because they aren't very well balanced, and making a balanced program ain't rocket surgery). They're a lot better than a lot of the stuff out there, and either program will make most people stronger than whatever they'd come up with on their own, but how hard is it to balance your pushing and pulling, seriously? Rippetoe presents as a massive dick and Mehdi presents as a massive pussy. Both of them manage to have personal armies of dicks and pussies. I feel that when people get into e-wars over which one is better, it's about as enriching as arguing over whether sandwiches should be cut diagonally or horizontally. The notion that steroids are needed to get bigger than Mehdi or to squat about 350 is either ludicrous or depressing. It amazes me that anyone over the age of 17 still buys into long-winded sales spiels, which is what 90% of what Mehdi's material is -- hey, I bought into that approach the first time I saw it, but then I saw it again and the grey stuff between my ears took note of it.

Both SS and SL5x5 seem to spend too much time trying to appeal to untrained wannabe bodybuilders. I guess there's more of a market for that, but no matter what Mark says about the IGF-1 in milk, drinking a gallon of it each day and squatting won't give you 10lb of muscle in 2 weeks.

I like apples.
Click to expand...


I disagree....

You can't mention RIP and Medhi in the same sentence... Medhi is a total tool!!!


Nothing wrong with SS programming or SL programming in my opinion.. Dependant on where you are at and your goals!!!.
 
nazzysmith said:
I disagree....

You can't mention RIP and Medhi in the same sentence... Medhi is a total tool!!!


Nothing wrong with SS programming or SL programming in my opinion.. Dependant on where you are at and your goals!!!.
Click to expand...

You're right about ripp nazzy but I think you're not grasping the underlying message in Ryan's rant.
 
Kuntze said:
What sort of progress did you have?
Click to expand...
I just remember Stuart McRobert recommending once a week workouts... Limiting the number of sets you do.

I found as a beginner I could go 2-3x weekly, especially on upper body... My bench was around 60kg when I started, a year later it's 130 (with a bit of injury time off in there), I think that's pretty decent.

In general going harder not softer has worked for me - but I have to pay attention to my form on exercises, this is what's screwed me up, not frequency. Limiting my range of motion on chins, only doing close grip overhead pressing, retracting scapula first and not pulling past parallel on rows, never doing 'palms facing away chins' and proper squat form.
 
0ni said:
Cake backloading will give you 10lb of muscle in 2 weeks
Click to expand...

:D

When I started strength training 3 years ago, Mehdi & stronglifts was one of my go to resources for info. At the time, I was thinking the numbers he was doing were very impressive and somewhat unobtainable for me.

Now, he seems to be putting up the same numbers as 3 years ago and I squat basically the same if not a bit more than him.

Strength training: everything works, but not forever.
 
RyanF said:
I don't think either SS or SL5x5 are particularly good programs (mostly because they aren't very well balanced, and making a balanced program ain't rocket surgery). They're a lot better than a lot of the stuff out there, and either program will make most people stronger than whatever they'd come up with on their own, but how hard is it to balance your pushing and pulling, seriously? Rippetoe presents as a massive dick and Mehdi presents as a massive pussy. Both of them manage to have personal armies of dicks and pussies. I feel that when people get into e-wars over which one is better, it's about as enriching as arguing over whether sandwiches should be cut diagonally or horizontally. The notion that steroids are needed to get bigger than Mehdi or to squat about 350 is either ludicrous or depressing. It amazes me that anyone over the age of 17 still buys into long-winded sales spiels, which is what 90% of what Mehdi's material is -- hey, I bought into that approach the first time I saw it, but then I saw it again and the grey stuff between my ears took note of it.

Both SS and SL5x5 seem to spend too much time trying to appeal to untrained wannabe bodybuilders. I guess there's more of a market for that, but no matter what Mark says about the IGF-1 in milk, drinking a gallon of it each day and squatting won't give you 10lb of muscle in 2 weeks.

I like apples.
Click to expand...


RyanF said:
SQ 142.5 BP 92.5 DL 177.5
Click to expand...

I'm sorry but you don't get to make judgement on either of those peoples programs.

Sure Mehdi is a dick.
But 5x5 with progressive increase in weight using compound movements is probably the best thing anyone can do to start with.

Rip at least has some solid theory behind why he suggests his rep/set ranges.

You just squat 3 plates, can't bench 2 plates and can't deadlift 4 plates and think you can rubbish others programming?

lol..

Go find a mirror and take a good long look at yourself mate.
 
Can anyone give any names of people that actually got strong from 5x5?
There is a Glenn Pendlay article were he lists 3 sort-of strong people but I'm hard pressed to find anyone who got legitimately strong
 
If anything SL 5 x 5 advertise really well as it was the first thing I found when enquiring about strength training. Look at it from a novice and it's broken down and detailed really well for someone who has no knowledge of anything to do with strength training. So in that aspect it's great for beginners. I started it and learnt more, and it made me a fan of strength training so I started looking more into it and found AusBB then discovered SS.

I'm not the most knowledegable but am a fan now and enjoy strength training and spent $2k to set up my own home gym and it started with SL 5 X 5. I'm training a mate using it now who has never touched a weight in his life and he's gaining strength but most importantly he is motivated to keep going because he sees some benefit out of it. We're both along way off hitting the numbers I see here but we're enjoying it.
 
0ni said:
Can anyone give any names of people that actually got strong from 5x5?
There is a Glenn Pendlay article were he lists 3 sort-of strong people but I'm hard pressed to find anyone who got legitimately strong
Click to expand...

Dr ken
Kevin Tolbert
And fuckin Bill Starr
 
Kuntze said:
Dr ken
Kevin Tolbert
And fuckin Bill Starr
Click to expand...

Reg Park did not do 5x5. To wit- here is his regime as described by himself:
"I didn't have a favorite workout routine. I have done every routine and every exercise in the book, but like most advanced trainers, I have found what exercises and what routines give me the best results. What is good for one man isn't necessarily good for somebody else. My bodyweight fluctuated between 230 and 245 during those years."

Deltoids and Upper Back
- Press Behind Neck 4-10 Sets, 5 Reps.
- Heavy Bent arm Lateral Raises 5-10 Sets, 10 Reps

Chest
- Bench Press 5-10 Sets, 2 Reps (That's Right 2 Reps!)

Thighs
- Squat 5 Sets, 5 Reps (of all exercises, this one was my favorite.)
- Hack Lift 5 Sets, 5 Reps

Biceps
- Barbell Curl 5 Sets, 5-8 Reps
- Incline Dumbbell Curls 5 Sets, 5-8 Reps

Triceps
- French Press - I did these standing and lying on the bench.

Calves
- Calf Machine 25 Reps, Many Sets.
- Donkey Calf Raises 25 Reps, Many Sets

Back
- High Pullups 5-8 Sets, 3 Reps.
- Power Clean 5-8 Sets, 3 Reps.
- Chins Behind Neck 5-8 Sets, 5-8 Reps (weights tied to waist.)

Waist and Trunk Area
- Leg Raises and Side Bends 100 or more Reps.
(Kiiha)



Dr Ken Liestner? Didn't do 5x5. He loved sets of 10-20 mostly and rarely went below this

Kevin Tolbert? Did not do 5x5. Son of Liestner did exactly the same training.

Bill Starr? I couldn't find any data at all on how he trained. He was a weightlifter though so while he may have done 5x5 for squats, I can't imagine that the competition lifts would be trained this way. While he a competitive weightlifter- he did not do 5x5
 
RyanF said:
I don't think either SS or SL5x5 are particularly good programs (mostly because they aren't very well balanced, and making a balanced program ain't rocket surgery). They're a lot better than a lot of the stuff out there, and either program will make most people stronger than whatever they'd come up with on their own, but how hard is it to balance your pushing and pulling, seriously? Rippetoe presents as a massive dick and Mehdi presents as a massive pussy. Both of them manage to have personal armies of dicks and pussies. I feel that when people get into e-wars over which one is better, it's about as enriching as arguing over whether sandwiches should be cut diagonally or horizontally. The notion that steroids are needed to get bigger than Mehdi or to squat about 350 is either ludicrous or depressing. It amazes me that anyone over the age of 17 still buys into long-winded sales spiels, which is what 90% of what Mehdi's material is -- hey, I bought into that approach the first time I saw it, but then I saw it again and the grey stuff between my ears took note of it.

Both SS and SL5x5 seem to spend too much time trying to appeal to untrained wannabe bodybuilders. I guess there's more of a market for that, but no matter what Mark says about the IGF-1 in milk, drinking a gallon of it each day and squatting won't give you 10lb of muscle in 2 weeks.

I like apples.
Click to expand...

I have literally starting weight lifting a week ago. What would you or anybody else suggest I do instead of SS as that is what I like the most out of the "beginner courses"
 
uppon2 said:
I have literally starting weight lifting a week ago. What would you or anybody else suggest I do instead of SS as that is what I like the most out of the "beginner courses"
Click to expand...

Dude...
Run SS..
Learning to do the basic barbell lifts properly and getting good at them is well worth your time....
When you stall or become stale in it switch to something else...

Nothing wrong with SS... It's more important that u are motivated...
 
uppon2 said:
I have literally starting weight lifting a week ago. What would you or anybody else suggest I do instead of SS as that is what I like the most out of the "beginner courses"
Click to expand...

My mate back in England got started in January and I helped him out online.
I believe in a very high frequency program. I'm not saying this is the best or only way but it's how I do things.

He was finding it difficult to learn many different movements at once and would get analysis paralysis. So I decided that he would just do squats to begin with. The template was squat/press/pull 5-6 days a week so he squatted and did incline bench and pull-ups as the other exercises. Incline bench you can just lay on the bench and press and pull-ups are pull-ups. This made it easy for him to focus on squats.

For programming, nothing fancy I had him work up to a set of 3 on each exercise where he had 2 reps left in the tank and then take 5% off and do more sets of 3 until he got to the point where he had 2 reps left in the tank again. Because of the lightish weight this was about 12-15 work sets per exercise typically with short 60 second rest periods. Each exercise was finished with a deathset of 10-50 reps

When he felt he was squatting with good technique and had basic coordination down he added in the bench press and then the deadlift.

This is also pretty much how I train myself... although I alternate squat/press/pull-ups with deadlift/bench/rows and use higher percentages of 1RM
 
0ni said:
Reg Park did not do 5x5. To wit- here is his regime as described by himself:
"I didn't have a favorite workout routine. I have done every routine and every exercise in the book, but like most advanced trainers, I have found what exercises and what routines give me the best results. What is good for one man isn't necessarily good for somebody else. My bodyweight fluctuated between 230 and 245 during those years."

Deltoids and Upper Back
- Press Behind Neck 4-10 Sets, 5 Reps.
- Heavy Bent arm Lateral Raises 5-10 Sets, 10 Reps

Chest
- Bench Press 5-10 Sets, 2 Reps (That's Right 2 Reps!)

Thighs
- Squat 5 Sets, 5 Reps (of all exercises, this one was my favorite.)
- Hack Lift 5 Sets, 5 Reps

Biceps
- Barbell Curl 5 Sets, 5-8 Reps
- Incline Dumbbell Curls 5 Sets, 5-8 Reps

Triceps
- French Press - I did these standing and lying on the bench.

Calves
- Calf Machine 25 Reps, Many Sets.
- Donkey Calf Raises 25 Reps, Many Sets

Back
- High Pullups 5-8 Sets, 3 Reps.
- Power Clean 5-8 Sets, 3 Reps.
- Chins Behind Neck 5-8 Sets, 5-8 Reps (weights tied to waist.)

Waist and Trunk Area
- Leg Raises and Side Bends 100 or more Reps.
(Kiiha)



Dr Ken Liestner? Didn't do 5x5. He loved sets of 10-20 mostly and rarely went below this

Kevin Tolbert? Did not do 5x5. Son of Liestner did exactly the same training.

Bill Starr? I couldn't find any data at all on how he trained. He was a weightlifter though so while he may have done 5x5 for squats, I can't imagine that the competition lifts would be trained this way. While he a competitive weightlifter- he did not do 5x5
Click to expand...

I'm telling you.
That's not enough?
That's ok :(
I know these blokes.
 
nazzysmith said:
Dude...
Run SS..
Learning to do the basic barbell lifts properly and getting good at them is well worth your time....
When you stall or become stale in it switch to something else...

Nothing wrong with SS... It's more important that u are motivated...
Click to expand...


Do SS . . . but add rows, do 3 x 5 on deads, and after squats, bench and deads do another 2-3 sets of 3-5 reps w/80% ish of your working sets to get more "practice" reps in
 
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