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Hello, and any advice appreciated.

Long cycle

0ni said:
Personally I am of the opinion that people should run the lowest dose possible for the longest time possible. 500mg of testosterone for 12 weeks? Fuck that, it's bullshit. 250mg over 20 weeks will give far superior gains and you'll keep much more. PCT can always be aggressive enough that you get full endocrine function back. ALWAYS. Most people when they plan a cycle can do with keeping whatever they bought, halving the dose and doubling the time on. I also think low dosing the testosterone and using higher dosages of other compounds works very well.

A good first cycle based on this would be 250mg of test E over 20 weeks frontloaded with 8 weeks of 20mg dianabol a day.
A good second cycle would be 250mg of a testosterone blend like sustanon and 400mg of equipoise a week over 20 weeks with 50mg of anadrol for 3 weeks at the end of the cycle when you're at your leanest
Click to expand...

I was under the impression that cycles would not be healthy to be on for such a long time? in fact I have not read or met someone that is of that opinion.
Also if you go for 20 weeks on isn't it 20 weeks off for beginners?
Also a good mention would be if you are to front load with ORALS you should pyramid them. It would be advisable as they are toxic to take milk thistle daily and you can get if from ebay in powdered form 250 grams for around $21.90 delivered.(very cheap compared to pills from chemists.) Milk Thistle Herb Powder (Pure) 250 gms | eBay
I agree on the low test and the buff the others.
I agree with the low dose for beginners although you mention the androgens
what about pills to counteract estrogen conversion
especially in low doses? though you don't want to convert all the estogen as it is essential for building muscle right?
Also the 250 dose of test apparently undoes the benefit of the collagen syn and must be kept in the range of 100-200mg a week(no doubt this will have to do with the ester length and the half life doubling as it does. Which reminds me of the 20 week thing that means the half lives would be going on for some time and post cycle would be lengthy and lots of pills counteracting the balancing act.
First cycle with collagen synthesis in mind scroll down to going on 4t
Also a quick google of steroids for dummies 1,2, and 3 revenge of the syringe with the words torrent after it will bring knowledge in the basics and advanced and if you like the pdf you could always buy it... and support the people that helped bring this forward.
Don't take this to heart I am suggesting another way I like the Idea of low test.
Regards,
Test a theory.
G.
 
I'd like someone to explain to me whats with all this beginner bullshit. Are people suggesting that some how if you have used before you are safer or the effects are more subtle... The argument of having to use low dosage due to inexperience just doesn't not weight as far as I'm concerned, unless someone can provide conclusive evidence to the contrary.

Oni also brings up the argument of whether cycling is the optimal form of usage.

On side note, to all guys on here talking about how bad steroids are and how they wreck your health blah blah blah, just give a rest. You obviously don't take them and don't have any knowledge on the subject.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Woodes Rogers said:
I'd like someone to explain to me whats with all this beginner bullshit. Are people suggesting that some how if you have used before you are safer or the effects are more subtle... The argument of having to use low dosage due to inexperience just doesn't not weight as far as I'm concerned, unless someone can provide conclusive evidence to the contrary.

Oni also brings up the argument of whether cycling is the optimal form of usage.

On side note, to all guys on here talking about how bad steroids are and how they wreck your health blah blah blah, just give a rest. Get off this forum. You obviously don't take them and don't have any knowledge on the subject so fuck off. Go back to your forums about the what best padding is for the barbell when doing squats or whatever the fuck kind of fairy shit you talk about. theres no place for you here. Your like forward hanging out in the back line, your fucking useless.
Click to expand...

Be careful with steroids Woodey, they can be bad for you especially if you're a beginner.
 
Woodes Rogers,
Low dosage would be due to ....
Allergic reaction comes to mind.
Getting used to the chemical change.
I would read books that are from people that have trained world class body builders and use their knowledge I have mentioned above such book/s and also use knowledge of others on forums and make my own mind up and find what works for me.
Steroid damage is less that a multi vitamen on some surverys (Bigger stronger faster movue by the bell brothers) so in correct amounts Oni mentions low doses of test good advice for beginners and deca is like a 10/10 for safety in certain amounts and lengths of cycles apparently on some books and users although its half life is enormous.
Everybody is differnet hence the try less first.
Let me put it to you if you were my food taster and we were in the jungle would you chow down on something that has never been tasted before as everyone reacts differently.
Being an ex coach I know that mabye I could take Vitamen C 1 gram a day and my body may only use half or less of it. You on the other hand may use all of it. Btw Vitamen C has been trialed on terminally ill pattents with up to 20 grams or more by the doctors and patients with no ill side effect obviously you need to build to these doses or your riding the porcelen bus all night.
And oral steroids are extremly bad for your organs if in a large dose as they have to break them down before entering the blood stream(liver tonic recommended) though they are great for giving you that initial kick start. remember this ...a little knowledge is dangerous.
I know guys who have done some serious damage to themselves due too lack of care and knowledge and advice of people that know no better.
Summary. Get a book read it re read it ask a question. test a theory learn. pass on knowledge.
Also try not to attack people that may be scared about trialing or their belief system as this gives them justification about their beliefs.
I know drug free lifters that are extremly strong stronger then 95% of dart men. though they are few they are strong.
Regards,
G.
 
"Everybody is different hence the try less first.
Let me put it to you if you were my food taster and we were in the jungle would you chow down on something that has never been tasted before as everyone reacts differently."

Valid point. and i agree with that. fortune favors the bold. If you are that 0.1% well unlucky you. We're talking about a bit of testosterone here not heroine.

Attacking... not quite. Let us think of it as more like a lame attempt at swatting a fly thats landed on your face. I don't go on to rocket science forums and start bagging people for trying make rockets that go to the moon because i think aliens live there. I'm just pointing them back in the direction the came from.
 
Woodes much better at stating how you feel.
Also remeber this if you take Test and you are an agressive person this will be amplified when on cycle.
I know a guy who has used for 20 yrs and he stated that you know the really good gear when you get a rash from it.
Well I don't want to tell him that its been cut with too much benzyl alcohol
+ benzyl benzoate and he is having a reaction to one of these that have been added in excess due too trying to make something go further than it should, because this guy wouldn't listen due to his 20 yrs and somehow not educating himself makes him more knowledgable than people who have done less and researched/educated more.
So again if you are getting if from the pharmacy go for it ie, in russia it is $1 an amp for prop or test and I mean there is a chemist about every 300 m. Cheaper in larger amounts and you can get hgg delivered in 2 hours at a bigger gym for $200 euros, in Thailand its around $2.50 for prop and test and 4$ for deca pharmacy grade then great use an amount that is stated for beginners to cycle.
If however you get gear from an unknown then use caution. most of it will be less than it already should be I noticed a huge difference in taking a ml of Pharma as opposed to the hit and miss unkown/s UG labs ect its potency was less than half I could literally feel my hair burning up on larger doses of the pharmacy grade.
In Summary you get what you pay for if the guys are legit.
If you have a reaction check how you injected as there are a lot of tips and tricks from seasoned darters and stop if need be antoher idea is always try one substace then next cycle add another. Or throw caution to the wind.
Just remember you are upsetting the perfect balance of you equilibrium and not just physically.
You must also research how to counteract the hormone changes and conversion if you want to get bang for buck while on cycle and after.

Luck is Tenacity of purpose be tenacious.
Regards,
G.
 
gmang73 said:
I was under the impression that cycles would not be healthy to be on for such a long time? in fact I have not read or met someone that is of that opinion.
Also if you go for 20 weeks on isn't it 20 weeks off for beginners?
Also a good mention would be if you are to front load with ORALS you should pyramid them. It would be advisable as they are toxic to take milk thistle daily and you can get if from ebay in powdered form 250 grams for around $21.90 delivered.(very cheap compared to pills from chemists.) Milk Thistle Herb Powder (Pure) 250 gms | eBay
I agree on the low test and the buff the others.
I agree with the low dose for beginners although you mention the androgens
what about pills to counteract estrogen conversion
especially in low doses? though you don't want to convert all the estogen as it is essential for building muscle right?
Also the 250 dose of test apparently undoes the benefit of the collagen syn and must be kept in the range of 100-200mg a week(no doubt this will have to do with the ester length and the half life doubling as it does. Which reminds me of the 20 week thing that means the half lives would be going on for some time and post cycle would be lengthy and lots of pills counteracting the balancing act.
First cycle with collagen synthesis in mind scroll down to going on 4t
Also a quick google of steroids for dummies 1,2, and 3 revenge of the syringe with the words torrent after it will bring knowledge in the basics and advanced and if you like the pdf you could always buy it... and support the people that helped bring this forward.
Don't take this to heart I am suggesting another way I like the Idea of low test.
Regards,
Test a theory.
G.
Click to expand...

A short cycle makes no sense. The body likes homoeostasis. Lots of things I see if people saying things like "I got no further gains after 12 weeks, I have to up the dose" for example. The body may have jumped up 5kg in weight which is a fair amount of extra mass that the body isn't used to. Extending the cycle and making the gains slower makes this much less of a contrast, the body will "like" it more and you'll keep a lot more because you're body is simply used to having that much mass.
Endocrine system function can be kept healthy with IGF-1 and hCG injections in most cases. I think that time on should = time off as well yes- unless you're very advanced and are accepting that you'll lose your endocrine system. TBH I am going to only cycle once a year when I start and it will be around 20 weeks long.

Regarding testosterone and equipoise, collagen is not why you take equipoise. So I wouldn't really mind about testosterone "undoing" that. Equipoise is a fantastic steroid and is very popular with both strength athletes and body builders. Most people on the internet ignore it because they don't get the gains they want. Again this is due to the 8-12 week cycles you see and it being the undecanoate ester. Run equipoise for 20 weeks even at a lower dose and you'll get great results. It does not suppress you much at all either so running it at 600mg over 20 weeks with 300mg of testosterone and you'll find it very easy to regain your endocrine system afterwards. If you're taking your IGF-1 and hCG shots then you won't need much of a PCT at all.

I agree with loading orals in a pyramid fashion. I do not think that they are as bad as people make them out to be RE toxicity. I'll try and find the source for this but in one medical study patients were on 5mg/kg of anadrol a day for anaemia and were treated for a full year before liver problems came about. Do I recommend a 100kg guy take 500mg of anadrol a day? Hell no- but I think 50-100mg a day for 3 weeks on, 3 weeks off would be fine RE the liver as long as you're a healthy person that does not drink. Obviously you get your liver enzymes checked once every 2 months.

Lastly, if you get your dosages right, you will not have ANY problems with estrogen, progesterone, prolactin etc. If you are having problems though while you're waiting for your doses to adjust (which can take 2-4 weeks) I would not take an AI, SERM or anything like that. You can introduce masteron instead and your body will like it much better. It's expensive though so I really would not do a silly cycle that has you bloated up to fuck and just running masteron through the whole cycle lol. Just until your doses are such that you do not have estrogenic problems
 
Woodes Rogers said:
I'd like someone to explain to me whats with all this beginner bullshit. Are people suggesting that some how if you have used before you are safer or the effects are more subtle... The argument of having to use low dosage due to inexperience just doesn't not weight as far as I'm concerned, unless someone can provide conclusive evidence to the contrary.

Oni also brings up the argument of whether cycling is the optimal form of usage.

On side note, to all guys on here talking about how bad steroids are and how they wreck your health blah blah blah, just give a rest. You obviously don't take them and don't have any knowledge on the subject.
Click to expand...

http://ausbb.com/steroids-performance-enhancers/19319-beginners-steroids.html
I wrote about this before, explains it well. The main point is that you need to learn how to train before you train on steroids. It's not how big you are, or how strong or how many years, it's the ability to know how to train which takes a very long time for some people and a very short time for others
 
Oni,

The reason people don't see much gains after 12 weeks would be the conversion of test to estrogen due too the body figuring out this shit aint natural.Unless they counter pill.
Gains should not be instant I have trained most of my life, I only considered steroids after 35 and took them when I was 37. mabye I should have considered them earlier.
I would research the 20 week thing... I am not saying it won't work just do more research.
small gains that stick are ofter better.
collagen s/n would be why I would take equipose due to I need the healing factor of wolverine atm.
Orals can be toxic depends on the person and depends on the amount and also a liver tonic.
in low doses they are fine with some milk thistle.
Have you ran anything for 20 weeks?

Regards,

G.
 
Clint Darden is a big fan of long cycles and is hired by WSM competitors to figure out their cycles.
Again if you're getting trouble with estrogen then your doses are wrong. I think that I've explained the reasons for what I'm saying pretty adequately. Small gains that stick are better yes. But that doesn't mean you should run a short cycle. You need to build up gains slowly over a long time. If you run sensible doses then your endocrine system should be fine.
 
Oni,

Clint seems honest.
I owuld love to run a long cycle so your advice is timely thankyou.

Regards,

G.
 
Yeah he lives in Cyprus
I'll try and find the video where he says "keep whatever you bought, halve your doses and take them for twice as long"
There are also a few good videos on advanced cycling which is pretty much 4 weeks of very anabolic steroids followed by 4 weeks of very androgenic steroids and so on
 
0ni said:
A short cycle makes no sense. The body likes homoeostasis. Lots of things I see if people saying things like "I got no further gains after 12 weeks, I have to up the dose" for example. The body may have jumped up 5kg in weight which is a fair amount of extra mass that the body isn't used to. Extending the cycle and making the gains slower makes this much less of a contrast, the body will "like" it more and you'll keep a lot more because you're body is simply used to having that much mass.
Endocrine system function can be kept healthy with IGF-1 and hCG injections in most cases. I think that time on should = time off as well yes- unless you're very advanced and are accepting that you'll lose your endocrine system. TBH I am going to only cycle once a year when I start and it will be around 20 weeks long.

Regarding testosterone and equipoise, collagen is not why you take equipoise. So I wouldn't really mind about testosterone "undoing" that. Equipoise is a fantastic steroid and is very popular with both strength athletes and body builders. Most people on the internet ignore it because they don't get the gains they want. Again this is due to the 8-12 week cycles you see and it being the undecanoate ester. Run equipoise for 20 weeks even at a lower dose and you'll get great results. It does not suppress you much at all either so running it at 600mg over 20 weeks with 300mg of testosterone and you'll find it very easy to regain your endocrine system afterwards. If you're taking your IGF-1 and hCG shots then you won't need much of a PCT at all.

I agree with loading orals in a pyramid fashion. I do not think that they are as bad as people make them out to be RE toxicity. I'll try and find the source for this but in one medical study patients were on 5mg/kg of anadrol a day for anaemia and were treated for a full year before liver problems came about. Do I recommend a 100kg guy take 500mg of anadrol a day? Hell no- but I think 50-100mg a day for 3 weeks on, 3 weeks off would be fine RE the liver as long as you're a healthy person that does not drink. Obviously you get your liver enzymes checked once every 2 months.

Lastly, if you get your dosages right, you will not have ANY problems with estrogen, progesterone, prolactin etc. If you are having problems though while you're waiting for your doses to adjust (which can take 2-4 weeks) I would not take an AI, SERM or anything like that. You can introduce masteron instead and your body will like it much better. It's expensive though so I really would not do a silly cycle that has you bloated up to fuck and just running masteron through the whole cycle lol. Just until your doses are such that you do not have estrogenic problems
Click to expand...

Now thats a reply. tafe i hope your reading this shit
 
So much tard in this thread...

To the thread starter you actually look pretty sharp already... Your issue is in your head and like the rest of us we all want to get swole...

I'm not against steroids... But I am against what a lot of fuckers are doing to their bodies and organs...

And that is to inject shitty home made oils without fully understanding what their doing or what their getting...

If testosterone was legal and a doctor would prescribe me a cycle to get swole I would probably look into doing it... But to order something on line or buy it on the street and then inject it???... Fuck that!
 
Lol. Thanks for all your input guys. It's always awesome to think you're close to having your head around something, and then a few days later your more confused than you were in the first place.
 
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