struggling with cut

RyanF said:

My experience is that the scale doesn't move very far without taking bodyfat% with it. In 8 years, I'm yet to find a way after the first few months of training to gain any visually recognisable new muscle mass without gaining fat with it, ultimately requiring a cut as a result. Attempting to build muscle without gaining fat resulted in me remaining skinny. After noob gains, nothing happened to my muscles until I did accept fat gains.

Do you have experience to support what you're saying? Any photos, or at least measurements to demonstrate that doing it the way you recommend gets good results?

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I went from 70kgs at 19 to 100kgs at 30 without going near 15% bodyfat. I did cut for bb comps a few times in the first 3 years but then I just ate and trained. Then I left town and stopped training and my bodyweight dropped to low 80s. When I started training again I went from 83 to 107 in 5 years but I was a bit fat at that weight.

The critical variable is how much you eat in my opinion.

it depends on what direction you want to go in,

Fair enough I have only been training for a little over 2 years, and yes I'm a "lightweight" I guess.. But I have spent the half the time "cutting" and the other half eating normally and gaining weight..

But I am am still gaining size as a natty, even after not training much in the last 3 months. due to work,

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if you want to gain maximum muscle do as bull suggests.

or cut the fat and start again and do it right.

RyanF said:

How many people do you know who've actually lost any noteworthy amount of fat just by being more muscular? Because I can't think of any. When people aim to get bigger, they tend to get fatter as well. For anyone past the first couple months of training, it's rare to see anyone gain any meaningful amount of muscle faster than they gain fat, or to do so without getting fatter.

I'm gonna have to back bradsky 100% here.

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There is someone right here on this very forum who has done just that, take a look at Pistachio's recent comparison pics, very noticeable muscle gain without fat gain.
For a natural recreational lifter extreme bulking and then cutting is just a YoYo of 1 step forward and 2 steps back.
Far more progress can be made over time by simply eating enough to fuel muscle growth but not eating so much as to add fat.

thanks everyone for your opinions,
the only reason i wanted to cut some more was to bring my bodyfat down to around 10% which from there i have a margin to eat in surplus and if i do gain a bit of bodyfat its not too bad, i wont end up too fat again and have to stop gaining before i end up like a fat slob.
as i hold all my fat on my gut its extremely noticable when i am holding fat, and when your belly ends up bigger than your chest you certainly dont look like someone who works out, and the whole point of getting bigger to be more visually appealing is null and void.

to make note aswell while i have been cutting my strength hasnt really dropped from when i was 80kg -75kg so would that imply that i have had minimal muscle loss?

Darkoz said:

There is someone right here on this very forum who has done just that, take a look at Pistachio's recent comparison pics, very noticeable muscle gain without fat gain.
For a natural recreational lifter extreme bulking and then cutting is just a YoYo of 1 step forward and 2 steps back.
Far more progress can be made over time by simply eating enough to fuel muscle growth but not eating so much as to add fat.

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I've seen his photos from the 2012 body transformation contest, if that's what you're referring to, although I haven't read how he went about the entire training year (whether he bulked and then cut to get to that point, or did it all through a very slow perma-bulk).

Darkoz said:

There is someone right here on this very forum who has done just that, take a look at Pistachio's recent comparison pics, very noticeable muscle gain without fat gain.
For a natural recreational lifter extreme bulking and then cutting is just a YoYo of 1 step forward and 2 steps back.
Far more progress can be made over time by simply eating enough to fuel muscle growth but not eating so much as to add fat.

Click to expand...

RyanF said:

I've seen his photos from the 2012 body transformation contest, if that's what you're referring to, although I haven't read how he went about the entire training year (whether he bulked and then cut to get to that point, or did it all through a very slow perma-bulk).

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Player as well leaned up and had a noticeable increase in mass also logged on here.

I know what you guy's are saying about slow bulking, and I agree 100%, it is the best way to go...


I am not arguing that point,

I would not recommend anyone bulk hard and cut hard, that's just silly.

But I am not against getting lean and staying fairly lean all the time.

I see no reason to ever go above 12 - 13% body fat. unless you want the huge tank look.

1800 cals

Try aim for around 200+ (800 of your 1800 calories) from protein

Cardio for 45 mins in mornings
Weights 4-5 days a week at night

Best get your calories from dense foods like vegetables and animal proteins and try not drink your calories, they don't leave you satiated.

Drink plenty of water, chew sugarfree gum, eat broccoli and tuna ( good foods and low cals) if your feeling ravenous.

Log your progress.

Aim to lose 0.5-1 kg per week, a slow longer cut is best.

Fat people should lose weight until they are in a healthy weight/bf range. (obviously while still lifting)

For long term, I have an upper and lower limit. I know when I get to my upper BF limit that I'm comfortable with and then I'll do a mini cut and then continue as I was.

Think about this, how long does it take to gain 1kg of lean tissue? How long does it take to lose 1kg fat? Now think about what proportion of each year you spend on getting bigger and how much on losing the fat. The answer to this will depend on how "lose" you are with your diet in the gaining stage.

And to the OP: at 6' 75kg, I'd eat more rather than less.

ok i think i have decided, im going to go back to eating in surplus calories next week, lean bulk, i will deal with the stubborn stomach fat when i get bigger and heavier.