struggling with cut

hey guys,

ill give you a little background, i originally started training hard probably about a 1 year ago and weighed around 65kg at 6ft (skinnyfat ecto ftw), over the year i ate ridiculous amounts of food and trained hard to put on some weight which i stopped at 80kg, and astimated around 20-21% bodyfat
from there i started cutting to try get rid of some bodyfat so i could start my next bulk with a good lean base.

i have been eating in a deficit (approx 2000-2200cals everyday) for 2-3 months and i lift 4-5 days a week. the only time my diet and training suffered was over the xmas/new years week.

the problem i have is that i dropped back to around 75kg within the first month but havent really moved since, and i carry majority of my fat on my belly so not being able to shift this little bit of fat on my gut is annoying. i estimate that i am at around 14-15% bodyfat atm.

what options do i have to try to shift another 5ish% before i start bulking again.

Keto?

1800 cals should do the trick

Increase your training volume would be my first guess.

Others will probably disagree with me but I don't think beginners have any reason to get into a bulk/cut cycle. Your first few years are one long bulk. You have to build the muscle before it is any use to you. Bulking and cutting serves no purpose until you have the base.

The bulk I am referring to does not necessarily involve donuts and shit and 20% bodyfat, I just mean eat well train hard and keep your head down until you have some size. If you have allowed yourself to get fat along the way and you don't like it, then cut out the shit food and train hard and keep your head down until you have some size.

It really is that simple. Cutting before you are ready will just reduce your lean mass along with the fat and you will wind up being skinny forever like everyone else who does it.

bull said:

Increase your training volume would be my first guess.

Others will probably disagree with me but I don't think beginners have any reason to get into a bulk/cut cycle. Your first few years are one long bulk. You have to build the muscle before it is any use to you. Bulking and cutting serves no purpose until you have the base.

The bulk I am referring to does not necessarily involve donuts and shit and 20% bodyfat, I just mean eat well train hard and keep your head down until you have some size. If you have allowed yourself to get fat along the way and you don't like it, then cut out the shit food and train hard and keep your head down until you have some size.

It really is that simple. Cutting before you are ready will just reduce your lean mass along with the fat and you will wind up being skinny forever like everyone else who does it.

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100% spot on Bull, these guys get stuck in this bulk cut cycle and end up going mid 80's to high 70's and back again (as an example) and struggle to put on any real mass. Well played sir.

As for 1800 cals fuck that I wouldn't even be able to function on that. Props to you if you can handle it Bradsky but that'd kill me. Spose I can't talk though I'm a fat fuck.

I'd probably put in an application for sainthood (for the miracle) if i was to get anywhere close to 80kg's light

As a fat bastard who's successfully lost well in the past though, I increased my cardio to knock the stubborn bits off without really changing up my diet much further (although it was fairly clean at that point). Exercise bike & swimming. While maintaining the weight training.

bull said:

Increase your training volume would be my first guess.

Others will probably disagree with me but I don't think beginners have any reason to get into a bulk/cut cycle. Your first few years are one long bulk. You have to build the muscle before it is any use to you. Bulking and cutting serves no purpose until you have the base.

The bulk I am referring to does not necessarily involve donuts and shit and 20% bodyfat, I just mean eat well train hard and keep your head down until you have some size. If you have allowed yourself to get fat along the way and you don't like it, then cut out the shit food and train hard and keep your head down until you have some size.

It really is that simple. Cutting before you are ready will just reduce your lean mass along with the fat and you will wind up being skinny forever like everyone else who does it.

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Absolutely right Bull
I'll go even further and say that unless you're a pro bodybuilder who can dial it in everytime, us regular folk have no business jumping on the bulk/cut bandwagon.

Darkoz said:

Absolutely right Bull
I'll go even further and say that unless you're a pro bodybuilder who can dial it in everytime, us regular folk have no business jumping on the bulk/cut bandwagon.

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I pretty much agree. I don't think I ever intentionally bulk. Its usually just me cutting loose on the food for 2 weeks over Christmas or on holiday and put on 4-8kg and then back to eating normal.

I've been cutting steadily on 1800-2200 cals (starting at 97.5kg) from the start of November (around the 12th-14th). Currently sitting at 90.8kg (xmas period slowed me down a bit). I think people overestimate how many calories they actually need. If you're sedentary most of the day, and only work out 4x weekly you're not moving a whole lot. That's the reality of it. A tradesman or someone involved in laborious work has more of a buffer. If your weight isn't moving you're consuming too much.


After checking food diaries of hundreds of people over the last 10 years, I can tell you most people underestimate how much they're consuming. Fat is particularly sneaky at bumping up your caloric intake.

Everyone is an individual and should be treated as such, if you're not a gifted ecto with a raging metabolism (a mate of mine - 85kg, easily eats over 4500 calories a day and maintains his weight pretty much) then you need to take care.

Even at 97kg if I ate 4500cals i'd gain a considerable amount of size & unwanted body fat. I am fortunate enough to have a body that just loves being thick and muscular even when cutting. I've lost nothing off my arms and chest going from 97-90kg, but that 31" waist is approaching.

thanks guys,
that was my other thought to just go back to eating in surplus and keep "bulking".
i can feel i have already started to build a good base but just the flab around the midsection is demotivating.

After losing weight, are you reassessing your macro/calorie intake? That is the problem I had when my weight loss plateaued.

Also, it's not for everyone, but you could also try looking into IF. I've been on it for a few months now, and it's definitely helped. Take a look at my training log at the before and after pics, I had a decent gut too.

d1mitch said:

thanks guys,
that was my other thought to just go back to eating in surplus and keep "bulking".
i can feel i have already started to build a good base but just the flab around the midsection is demotivating.

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Don't waste that base trying to get rid of gut fat. Train harder, eat well, grow more and the gut will go away by itself and you will be 85 rather than 75.

Bulking and cutting does serve a purpose, gaining and losing weight.

if someone wants to lose their gut at the expense of muscle it is their choice.

Most times when someone asks for advice on how to do something, they don't get an answer on their question, they get told why they shouldn't do it.

fair enough OP shouldn't have bulked the way he did, but he did it and now wants to lose his gut.

eat less or exercise more.

1800 cals should do the trick.

bradsky said:

Bulking and cutting does serve a purpose, gaining and losing weight.

if someone wants to lose their gut at the expense of muscle it is their choice.

Most times when someone asks for advice on how to do something, they don't get an answer on their question, they get told why they shouldn't do it.

fair enough OP shouldn't have bulked the way he did, but he did it and now wants to lose his gut.

eat less or exercise more.

1800 cals should do the trick.

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You are right in as much as I did make some assumptions in my answer.

I assumed that he wasn't choosing to waste the muscle he had tried to build. I assumed that he didn't know any better and was wasting it unintentionally.

There is one part of your post that I don't agree with and that is the "eat less or exercise more." There is a third option which imo is far superior to either of those, increase your BMR by adding a heap of muscle.

However 1800 cals will certainly do the trick and hey, some girls don't like muscles anyway.

I'm not saying your right or wrong, but I cut from >20% bodyfat down to <10% my 1st year of training and I wouldn't have done it any other way.

bull said:

You are right in as much as I did make some assumptions in my answer.

I assumed that he wasn't choosing to waste the muscle he had tried to build. I assumed that he didn't know any better and was wasting it unintentionally.

There is one part of your post that I don't agree with and that is the "eat less or exercise more." There is a third option which imo is far superior to either of those, increase your BMR by adding a heap of muscle.

However 1800 cals will certainly do the trick and hey, some girls don't like muscles anyway.

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How many people do you know who've actually lost any noteworthy amount of fat just by being more muscular? Because I can't think of any. When people aim to get bigger, they tend to get fatter as well. For anyone past the first couple months of training, it's rare to see anyone gain any meaningful amount of muscle faster than they gain fat, or to do so without getting fatter.

I'm gonna have to back bradsky 100% here.

RyanF said:

For anyone past the first couple months of training, it's rare to see anyone gain any meaningful amount of muscle faster than they gain fat, or to do so without getting fatter.

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They are eating too much. Bodyfat is very easy to control, all you need is a mirror once a week.

This is the problem with the bulk/cut thing, people accept fat when they bulk and they don't have to. My point is forget it and eat and train.

I'm not trying to convince anyone, do whatever you like, I'm simply offering an opinion.

bull said:

They are eating too much. Bodyfat is very easy to control, all you need is a mirror once a week.

This is the problem with the bulk/cut thing, people accept fat when they bulk and they don't have to. My point is forget it and eat and train.

I'm not trying to convince anyone, do whatever you like, I'm simply offering an opinion.

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It amuses me that the two arguing with you are lightweights.

bull said:

They are eating too much. Bodyfat is very easy to control, all you need is a mirror once a week.

This is the problem with the bulk/cut thing, people accept fat when they bulk and they don't have to. My point is forget it and eat and train.

I'm not trying to convince anyone, do whatever you like, I'm simply offering an opinion.

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My experience is that the scale doesn't move very far without taking bodyfat% with it. In 8 years, I'm yet to find a way after the first few months of training to gain any visually recognisable new muscle mass without gaining fat with it, ultimately requiring a cut as a result. Attempting to build muscle without gaining fat resulted in me remaining skinny. After noob gains, nothing happened to my muscles until I did accept fat gains.

Do you have experience to support what you're saying? Any photos, or at least measurements to demonstrate that doing it the way you recommend gets good results?

RyanF said:

My experience is that the scale doesn't move very far without taking bodyfat% with it. In 8 years, I'm yet to find a way after the first few months of training to gain any visually recognisable new muscle mass without gaining fat with it, ultimately requiring a cut as a result. Attempting to build muscle without gaining fat resulted in me remaining skinny. After noob gains, nothing happened to my muscles until I did accept fat gains.

Do you have experience to support what you're saying? Any photos, or at least measurements to demonstrate that doing it the way you recommend gets good results?

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Supposedly Carb Backloading bypasses alot of that. Try doing some reading on it and see if you believe the author. Proof is in the pudding though, literally

wingman said:

Supposedly Carb Backloading bypasses alot of that. Try doing some reading on it and see if you believe the author. Proof is in the pudding though, literally

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*reads a couple articles on carb back-loading* Well, I'm not convinced that this would work better for body composition than a different arrangement of the same amount of macros, although I am curious. The recommendation for high sugar, high processed foods as your carbs sounds like a great recipe for health, though.