Why Policy?

NightFallTech said:

People using performance enhancers that aren't actually illegal per se in the wider world are going to worry the AFP why?

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On the assertion that many of the substances used in strength sports are not legal to possess, import or sell, it's a matter of interest for law enforcement.

The supply chain can also be quite murky and overlaps with other areas of interest for the fuzz.

Any crackdown that is about to happen on PED in sport will be under a Federal instrument. Enforcement in that case is for the Federal fuzz, and while they are doing it they may discover other things along the way.

As for the "legally" dispensed substances - I think if someone is stockpiling a controlled medicine by the fridge load, has a couple of six-repeat scripts on the fridge magnet and has a bin full of spent syringes, then it's quite obvious that user is exceeding his once every three week dose of Sustanon 250 as prescribed by the doctor. The fuzz would fire off a scattergun of charges including trying to nail that guy with intent to sell or supply plus a few other weird ones.

It makes for an ugly headline in any case, and wait for the media to start joining a few dots......

vonfram88 said:

On the assertion that many of the substances used in strength sports are not legal to possess, import or sell, it's a matter of interest for law enforcement.

The supply chain can also be quite murky and overlaps with other areas of interest for the fuzz.

Any crackdown that is about to happen on PED in sport will be under a Federal instrument. Enforcement in that case is for the Federal fuzz, and while they are doing it they may discover other things along the way.

As for the "legally" dispensed substances - I think if someone is stockpiling a controlled medicine by the fridge load, has a couple of six-repeat scripts on the fridge magnet and has a bin full of spent syringes, then it's quite obvious that user is exceeding his once every three week dose of Sustanon 250 as prescribed by the doctor. The fuzz would fire off a scattergun of charges including trying to nail that guy with intent to sell or supply plus a few other weird ones.

It makes for an ugly headline in any case, and wait for the media to start joining a few dots......

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I'm skeptical as to how 'involved' the AFP would get for possession mate. Depends on how high profile it is I guess. Not really my concern as I don't take anything though, nor have I ever. But if I ever compete it would probably be in GPC

Feds would refer any relevant matter to the locals if outside of their list.

Something like that anyway.

I'm just off in the shed rolling out a new tin foil hat.

Yep, still goin.

I'm adding power lifting to the "not to talk a out subjects" religion and politics

Goosey said:

Yep, still goin.

I'm adding power lifting to the "not to talk a out subjects" religion and politics

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You had me at hello fluffy.

vonfram88 said:

On the assertion that many of the substances used in strength sports are not legal to possess, import or sell, it's a matter of interest for law enforcement.

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Neither is Cannabis... but the AFP doesn't tend to roll up guns blazing for that. The general approach to illegal drugs is tending towards 'harm minimisation' in most quarters, so i doubt this would be different for the performance enhancing kind, perhaps a counselling session or two?

There is a valid argument that illegal use of these drugs raises safety concerns that would be lessened if they were decriminalised.

I'll re-iterate my earlier point that its only really competitors like yourself and the media that closely follow each sport who 'care' about PEDs. Some members of the public may care (for example an amateur runner may care that a sprinter is caught using PED's) but by and large, sports are simply modern circuses for most of the population. I don't think it's important enough for the government to make any further moves on.

If anything, i think the issue is more relevant for power lifting while it remains small and of niche interest to people that care about the effort put in. If it became truly mainstream, the biggest circus would indeed win i believe.

Fluffy said:

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I love you. Maybe more than Goosey does.

vonfram88 said:

Feds would refer any relevant matter to the locals if outside of their list.

Something like that anyway.

I'm just off in the shed rolling out a new tin foil hat.

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So then since the drugs are illegal why does the powerlifting fed need to be the ones to be worrying about it. If people who happen to powerlift do illegal drugs let the police sort them out.

Is the federation then obliged to stop lifters competing if it is known they are taking illegal substances?

Interesting.

PTCPerth said:

Is the federation then obliged to stop lifters competing if it is known they are taking illegal substances?

Interesting.

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They wont know unless they TEST.

PTCPerth said:

Is the federation then obliged to stop lifters competing if it is known they are taking illegal substances?

Interesting.

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It's a timely question, Dan.

What would the insurance companies have to say about see no evil hear no evil and speak no evil?

Consuming illegal drugs is not illegal though?! Lol

vonfram88 said:

It's a timely question, Dan.

What would the insurance companies have to say about see no evil hear no evil and speak no evil?

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Lol. Bullshit what so every local sporting club has to test people for drugs.

Interesting thread. I love debates, on just about everything.

Since this is a weight training site, talk about drugs in sport is indeed appropriate. Many weight trainers take them, many don't, and many may be informed by the pros and cons of each side of the debate. i know my views have fluctuated over the years. I also would have appreciated fair dinkum debate about drugs when i was young, as i suspect many do from viewing open forums today.

That is my 2 cents.

Bazza20 said:

Lol. Bullshit what so every local sporting club has to test people for drugs.

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Any entity involved in an illegal activity and having the wrong culture will be unlikely to find support from an insurance company when shit hits the fan.

If you've ever been under the scrutiny of an investigator from an insurance company after something really bad has happened, you will know they go through your organisation like a dose of salts. They look at your policies, procedures, history and culture.

Insurance companies will look for ways around having to pay out a claim. Lifters or organizers being busted by the fuzz for something dodgy ain't going to help, particularly if there is no policy and procedures shield.

NightFallTech said:

Neither is Cannabis... but the AFP doesn't tend to roll up guns blazing for that. The general approach to illegal drugs is tending towards 'harm minimisation' in most quarters,

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Any imminent crackdown as a result of the recent shock and horror episodes in Australian sports administration and high profile overseas cases will be constituted under a Federal Statute, like the ASADA act (if that's what it's called, correct me if I am wrong). Those federal matters, when they require enforcement, will generally involve the AFP.

as an example in the case of more serious breaches of the Corporations Act, it's not just ASIC who raid the office, there are AFP officers in tow.

I note your reference to the harm minimization model, and apologize if I have excessively truncated the quotation of your post above.

The often cited model for decriminalized drugs is the Amsterdam model. For a period of time it worked. But, over time, it also attracted some undesirable elements, and some pretty seedy organized crime mobs started to get a foothold. Harder drugs and harder people established themselves. Last time I was there (2009) the authorities had shut down over 30% of the red light area to try to contain the problem. I understand more restrictions have taken effect since.

Sometimes I guess "borderline" behaviour, for want of a better term, begets further such behaviour and the whole situation can descend into hell from there.

vonfram88 said:

Any entity involved in an illegal activity and having the wrong culture will be unlikely to find support from an insurance company when shit hits the fan.

If you've ever been under the scrutiny of an investigator from an insurance company after something really bad has happened, you will know they go through your organisation like a dose of salts. They look at your policies, procedures, history and culture.

Insurance companies will look for ways around having to pay out a claim. Lifters or organizers being busted by the fuzz for something dodgy ain't going to help, particularly if there is no policy and procedures shield.

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A lot of words without actually answering the question.

It's up to the police to do there job and catch people using illegal drugs not sporting clubs.

While the federal govt has no current power to force anyone to adhere to drug-testing (unless fed is affiliated to drug testign procedures), or even recongise the fed if it pays for drug testing to asada as the DFPA does, it could provide a list of feds subject to drug testing.

This list could be accessed by all, including sponsors wishing to associate with sporting feds eager to keep their sports free of PEDs as much as possible.

I am actually surprised the dumbies in govt and ASADA have not considered such an option, given their crap with grocery and petrol watch.

In the case of powerlifting, still may not make much difference given that sport is already divided over issue of drugs.

As with life, competition between like-minded players will result in one or another gaining the support of govt in line with societal expectations of day. In this sense, competition between feds is healthy. The fact we are talking about drugs in sport is a sign that such issues will never go away, including for feds that want to grow.

The other way would be to force all sporting federations to pay fees to allow random drug testing. however, this would be expensive and almost alien to the liberal democratic tradition of each sport and fed looking after itself while competin for public influence.

In the end, there are a variety of reasons why each will choose a certain fed over others. Drugs is an important one, but not only reason. Hence, GPC will attract a lot of drug-free lifters for a variety of reasons such as good organisation, good atmosphere and enthusiastic officials and lifters, as other feds may also do.

As it stands, if one wants to minimse impact of drug taking amongst rivals, join PA.

vonfram88 said:

The often cited model for decriminalized drugs is the Amsterdam model. For a period of time it worked.

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Decriminalization is not the same as harm minimization, my ex partner worked in the drug and alcohol sector for a long time. By observation, the government is really not moving towards 'cracking down' on illegal drug use, more diversion, counselling, safe injection practices and the like. I suspect you could see an AFP swoop on dealers/suppliers, but I'd be very surprised if users were not given diversion to a drug and alcohol counselling program.