Diet Macro breakdown help.

Hey Guys,

OK I will try and keep this short and simple, but think it will be hard…

So, short backstory, I posted a while ago about eating too far below maintenance (between 1500 and 2000cals/day) and stalling metabolism which I had suspected and was doing for a long time, also before this I was badly ill with a stomach bug for about 2 weeks where I lost 10kg in about 9 days due to not being able to eat during this time. Since then I have had some bad personal family issues so decided to forget all about dieting and basically eat and drink what I want but still continue to lift heavy throughout. I have put back the weight from being ill and am sitting on 100kg @ 6’1” and at a guess body fat would be high teens I would suspect.

Now, I am starting to think about getting my diet back on track, from looking around my maintenance cals would be around 3000cals, I have ALWAYS struggled eating this much as I am not a big eater, but do like to snack throughout the day so smaller meals suit me well. I was thinking since I was eating so far below maintenance (1500 – 1800) I would start eating at around 2500 cals per day.

OK now as far as getting those 2500 cals, should I be on something like 40:40:20 macro breakdown OR maybe 50:30:20?

So I guess the 2 questions are
1. Is the 2500 cals OK as I do want to drop body fat?
2. What should the macro breakdown of the calorie intake be?

Once I have this info I can start working on the exact foods for the diet and will post up for people to flame or approve, hahaha

Thanks

Neddy

Keep it simple.

Absolute minimum of 1.5g/kg of protein. 2g/kg minimum if dieting.

Fats at about 0.8g/kg minimum.

The rest how you personally like it. The less carbs you eat the more carbs your body has to make itself and vice versa. Your choice in that department.

The calorie number should be ok. Just slowly adjust by about 200 every fortnight till you start gaining weight (give it a month to make sure you are actually going up )then you know you have passed your needs and a slight 100-200 calorie reduction is in order. Just take it slow.

Dave if your looking to get down to lower BF levels, 10% or below, is there a need to go to higher than 2g/kg protein levels.

Bazza20 said:

Dave if your looking to get down to lower BF levels, 10% or below, is there a need to go to higher than 2g/kg protein levels.

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A recent study showed less muscle loss at over 2g/kg (2.6g or around that area if i remember correctly). I have yet to see any strong evidence for 3g being better though. I just stick to 2 to 2.5g to be safe. Worst case scenario is you may lose 1kg more muscle mass which for an average person is not the worst thing ever.

No studies on people in low BF that i know of.

neddy: sorry if i have missed this from elsewhere, but where are you getting your bf% from? caliper? dexa? guestimate?

also, i assume you're trying to take the weight down, not up?

dave: for clarity, i assume those g/kg are based on lean body mass, not total?

March83 said:

neddy: sorry if i have missed this from elsewhere, but where are you getting your bf% from? caliper? dexa? guestimate?

also, i assume you're trying to take the weight down, not up?

dave: for clarity, i assume those g/kg are based on lean body mass, not total?

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Yeah sorry body fat measurement is just a guestimate, and yes trying to drop BF, i have been lifting for a while and have always to get down to lower body fat levels, a few years ago i got down to low teens but this was doing 30 mins HIIT a day as well as keto diet and lifting 5 times a week, i think i didnt wuite do it right then.

OK guys a bit of a bump and progress update....

So with some help from Dave (thanks mate), worked out diet should be around 2500cals with 250 protein, 185 carbs and 80 fats.

I have been on this for about 4wks now and i slowly increased the cals to what it is now at 2500cals up from about 1500 which this and another thead was originally about.

However, since increasing these cals i have actually put on BF and weight of about 3kg?

Would this be considered normal if i had been eating as such low cals for an extended period of time?

And should i give it another few weeks and see if the weight slowly starts to come down?

Cheers

My guess Neddy is that you have overestimated your maintenance requirements. Nutrition is the part of this game that I struggle to get excited about so I'm no expert but bodyfat won't lie to you.

Neddysmith said:

OK guys a bit of a bump and progress update....

So with some help from Dave (thanks mate), worked out diet should be around 2500cals with 250 protein, 185 carbs and 80 fats.

I have been on this for about 4wks now and i slowly increased the cals to what it is now at 2500cals up from about 1500 which this and another thead was originally about.

However, since increasing these cals i have actually put on BF and weight of about 3kg?

Would this be considered normal if i had been eating as such low cals for an extended period of time?

And should i give it another few weeks and see if the weight slowly starts to come down?

Cheers

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Don't be in a rush to drop calories. Keep diet the same for another 4 weeks to allow your body to adjust and see what happens before changing the calories.

Bazza20 said:

Don't be in a rush to drop calories. Keep diet the same for another 4 weeks to allow your body to adjust and see what happens before changing the calories.

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Thanks mate, this is what i was planning on doing, considering it isnt a massive weight gain and i have been eating way below my maintenance level for a long time, just thought i would put it out there and see what others thought.

@ Bull, dont think i have under estimated my maintenance level, I am 6'1" and weight 102kg (now) maintenance i calculated at around 3000cals, so for some cutting i thought 2500 cals would be perfect.

How much BF was the 3kg?

Probably needed to increase the cals slower but as Bazza said give it some time and see what happens. Better to spend a little time correcting your metabolic function than dropping cals. If you want you could drop down 250 for 2-4 weeks and then slowly up it again over a month.

dave said:

How much BF was the 3kg?

Probably needed to increase the cals slower but as Bazza said give it some time and see what happens. Better to spend a little time correcting your metabolic function than dropping cals. If you want you could drop down 250 for 2-4 weeks and then slowly up it again over a month.

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Dont know without out testing BF levels, so it would only be a guestimate.

I did initially add the cals slowly as you suggested by 200 cals per week which has bought me upto the 2500 cals per week.

But not a problem, will continue on the current cal intake for the next 4 weeks and then see how things go and then report back.

I fully agree it is better to focus on long term in correcting my metabolic function instead of looking for those short term gains..

Thanks Guys.

And when i say drop down 250 for 2-4 weeks i only mean 250 in total and sit at 2250 for a little while.

Neddysmith said:

@ Bull, dont think i have under estimated my maintenance level, I am 6'1" and weight 102kg (now) maintenance i calculated at around 3000cals, so for some cutting i thought 2500 cals would be perfect.

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FYI, i'm 90kg, 6', not built but athletic and my maintenance is ~2300. I'm relatively sedentary - i work a desk job and drive to and from work. my only activities are in the gym ~5x per week (heavy compounds only), walking the dogs ~20mins every night and typically i'd spend ~4-6hrs on the road bike each week. everything else is incidental/irregular.

When i'm actively trying to lose weight i target 1700cals on weekdays and then pretty much eat what i want on the weekend which leaves me at around 2000cal average for 7 days. this typically yields me about 3kg per month.

wrt macros, i'm typically light on the protein (normally 125-175g/day) and heavy on the fat.

If anything, i would guess that you've overestimated your maintenance, but as you have previously suggested, your current maintenance is probably on the low side anyway due to an extended period of calorie restriction. based in this and because you're obviously happy to experiment with your diet, i think sticking to your current plan for a period of a couple of weeks is worthwhile - it's only time, you can always take fat off later and it's quite probable that your body will ramp up the metabolism to avoid packing on fat, particularly if you're sensible with your macros (good amount of protein, sensible choices of carbs to control insulin, etc).

if you are going to experiment with your body make sure you're tracking macros - if you can eat a few hundred calories more, improve your training quality and avoid accumulating with the right dietary combination then you want to know what that is.

don't underestimate the body's power of hysteresis - it will work incredibly hard to restore itself to the weight it thinks it should be. Regardless of the energy you put into the system (food) or take out of it (activity), your body gets to decide how hot the fire burns and you have very little control over that.

The calorie calculators are just estimates and I'd agree that you're maintenance would be lower than it "should" be because of the previous calorie restriction.

If you had a similar protien intake before and you've upped the cals then it is likely that a fair portion of the gains is water weight anyway.

Basically if you were to have actually put on 3kg of fat in 4 weeks you'd have to eat around 23000 cals above maintenance or 6000ish per week. Not likely on 2500/day.

Also, if you are relatively new to cal counting then I'd make sure you are weighing foods. It is very easy to underestimate and quickly be at maintenance of above.

Neddysmith said:

@ Bull, dont think i have under estimated my maintenance level, I am 6'1" and weight 102kg (now) maintenance i calculated at around 3000cals, so for some cutting i thought 2500 cals would be perfect.

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That all seems to make sense but how much weight were you losing on the 1500 or whatever you were eating before?

I agree that you should probably continue as is for a while to see what happens over a longer time period. It may well normalise around the levels that you are talking, I just don't think that it's close to that at the moment unless you were losing weight rapidly before.

Just as an example. Last time I cut i was losing weight on 3700 calories. Went on holidays for 10 days, when I got back I went back to 3700. I gained weight for the first 3-4 weeks before I lost any. I held my nerve because I knew I easily lose weight on 3700. Sometimes it just takes your body a bit to adjust to the change in diet.

bull said:

That all seems to make sense but how much weight were you losing on the 1500 or whatever you were eating before?

I agree that you should probably continue as is for a while to see what happens over a longer time period. It may well normalise around the levels that you are talking, I just don't think that it's close to that at the moment unless you were losing weight rapidly before.

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Yeah basically a quick recap of the other thread i referred too, I was initially losing around a kg a week eating such low cals, but the issue was i stalled and then kept lowering cal intake, and then it was just my "normal" diet and due to the fact i was eating like this all the time for a couple of years i guess i think it has screwed with my metabilism and as so i wasnt losing...

So now i have calculated what my maintenance should be if i had a "normal" metabolism and organised my cutting diet around this, and even at 2500 cals it is still under maintenance by about 500 cals.

Which is why Dave and others have suggested bringing the cals up slowly over a period of time as i was eating such low cals previously.

far out, i havent weighed myself in a few months, Last time i checked i was 92kg.

Back into training and back at 2000cal per pay,

last time i did the whole calorie count thing, I spent months at 1800 then 2000, then 2200 and never lsot any weight,

Stength gains form weights were really good though, did weights only and no cardio during the calorie count

Now back into it all with lots or cardio, Seem to be what works well for me, I got down from 98kg to 73 end of start of 2011 with lots of cardio, No weights and no diet at all.

Mind you, At that wieght i still had A cup tits and wobblys bits, was around 18%bf. ( so wasent to happy)

So same again with lots of compund lifts should see a nice body recomp

Sydking said:

Now back into it all with lots or cardio, Seem to be what works well for me, I got down from 98kg to 73 end of start of 2011 with lots of cardio, No weights and no diet at all.

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You didn't eat?

Calorie deficits create weight loss. Can be from diet alone or ideally from diet & exercise. If you just like to lift & you tend to eat a bit then cardio can be done also to create the calorie deficit (as well as general fitness is a good thing IMO).