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Dynamic exercises prior to quasi-isometric exercises

0ni

0ni

Registered Rustler
Having a look through Siff & Zatsiorsky and they both recommend dynamic lifts before quasi-isometric lifts so I'm thinking I should probably warm up with some speed-strength stuff. So the real question here is, what? I was thinking either jump squats or muscle snatch (a power snatch without leg dip to catch the bar - a Pavel Tsatsouline suggestion) for 5x3.

Other suggestions were unilateral snatches, continental + jerks, depth jumps and other jumps and just wanted to see what people here thought. My training template for those that don't know is squat, press, pull or pull, press, pull
 
0ni said:
Having a look through Siff & Zatsiorsky and they both recommend dynamic lifts before quasi-isometric lifts so I'm thinking I should probably warm up with some speed-strength stuff. So the real question here is, what? I was thinking either jump squats or muscle snatch (a power snatch without leg dip to catch the bar - a Pavel Tsatsouline suggestion) for 5x3.

Other suggestions were unilateral snatches, continental + jerks, depth jumps and other jumps and just wanted to see what people here thought. My training template for those that don't know is squat, press, pull or pull, press, pull
Click to expand...

Warm up exercises should proceed from general to specific. The specific component of the warm up should be the same exercise as the first work exercise in your routine, just at a lighter weight. This structure ensures that the relevant muscles are warmed up and the neurologic pathways are engaged.

you only need to warm up with speed strength exercises if you are training speed strength in the main part of the workout.

the point being made by zatsiorsky, et al that you mentiion relates to the structure of the main part of the workout. I.e. Skill, then speed strength, then strength, then endurance exercises.
 
I like unilateral snatches and jumps. I wouldn't necessarily have a rep scheme but I would do them until they felt fast and powerful, then stop.

Don't go overboard and wear yourself out.

Here is a cool article on reactive training
 
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D-Man said:
Warm up exercises should proceed from general to specific. The specific component of the warm up should be the same exercise as the first work exercise in your routine, just at a lighter weight. This structure ensures that the relevant muscles are warmed up and the neurologic pathways are engaged.

you only need to warm up with speed strength exercises if you are training speed strength in the main part of the workout.

the point being made by zatsiorsky, et al that you mentiion relates to the structure of the main part of the workout. I.e. Skill, then speed strength, then strength, then endurance exercises.
Click to expand...

haz said:
I like unilateral snatches and jumps. I wouldn't necessarily have a rep scheme but I would do them until they felt fast and powerful, then stop.

Don't go overboard and wear yourself out.

Here is a cool article on reactive training
Click to expand...

Thank you both, looks like the jump squats (done with a full RoM) will be good then as the exercise I do first is squats. Reading the article now
 
FWIW, our program incorporates "light"/heavy days splits for the major lifts. Light lift days are similar to DE days in Westside - around 50-65% of 1RM performed as explosively as possible, with acceleration through the lift. Where a light/speed lift is on the same day as a heavy lift on another exercise, the light lift is performed first. Eg Mondays uses speed deadlifts prior to heavy squatting.
 
0ni said:
Thank you both, looks like the jump squats (done with a full RoM) will be good then as the exercise I do first is squats. Reading the article now
Click to expand...

If you haven't done them before be very careful with jump squats they are torture on the patella tendons. A while back i read a heap of explosive training stuff and went crazy on jump squats and plyos, all it did was give me bad patella tendinitis. 1000s of dollars spent at specialists, 2 years of no squatting or footy and almost 5 years on still have to be careful with it.

I wouldn't recommend them.
 
strong enough? said:
FWIW, our program incorporates "light"/heavy days splits for the major lifts. Light lift days are similar to DE days in Westside - around 50-65% of 1RM performed as explosively as possible, with acceleration through the lift. Where a light/speed lift is on the same day as a heavy lift on another exercise, the light lift is performed first. Eg Mondays uses speed deadlifts prior to heavy squatting.
Click to expand...

Awesome cheers

Bazza20 said:
If you haven't done them before be very careful with jump squats they are torture on the patella tendons. A while back i read a heap of explosive training stuff and went crazy on jump squats and plyos, all it did was give me bad patella tendinitis. 1000s of dollars spent at specialists, 2 years of no squatting or footy and almost 5 years on still have to be careful with it.

I wouldn't recommend them.
Click to expand...

Was that the landing that caused it you think?
 
0ni said:
Awesome cheers



Was that the landing that caused it you think?
Click to expand...

Yep landing.

Things like jump squats and plyos can be awesome but you really need to build up slowly. Without a coach the safest bet is jumping up onto a box. You get the explosiveness without the landing, can also add a weight vest later.
 
Bazza20 said:
If you haven't done them before be very careful with jump squats they are torture on the patella tendons. A while back i read a heap of explosive training stuff and went crazy on jump squats and plyos, all it did was give me bad patella tendinitis. 1000s of dollars spent at specialists, 2 years of no squatting or footy and almost 5 years on still have to be careful with it.

I wouldn't recommend them.
Click to expand...

Hahahahahaha did the same at 18 years of age. My left patella tendon has never been the same.

The loading of the movement can be an issue. It would be better to use a trap bar (or plates/DBs) for the jump and to let go of it before landing. Make sure you absorb the impact properly with your hips and knees. Also tendon strength should be slowly increased before going crazy with any intense plyo/explosive work.
 
dave said:
Hahahahahaha did the same at 18 years of age. My left patella tendon has never been the same.

The loading of the movement can be an issue. It would be better to use a trap bar (or plates/DBs) for the jump and to let go of it before landing. Make sure you absorb the impact properly with your hips and knees. Also tendon strength should be slowly increased before going crazy with any intense plyo/explosive work.
Click to expand...

I fucking wish I never read about plyos. My tendons just will not recover.
 
Here's a thought that's a little out there:
What if I added enough weight on the jump squats that I wouldn't get a lot of air, just come up onto my toes and maybe getting a few inches? (like you would in a high pull)
 
0ni said:
Here's a thought that's a little out there:
What if I added enough weight on the jump squats that I wouldn't get a lot of air, just come up onto my toes and maybe getting a few inches? (like you would in a high pull)
Click to expand...

Why make it so complicated? A jump squat onto the toes is just different enough from conventional squats to actually confuse the neural pathways for the squat.

Why not just perform your squat warmup sets with a concerted effort to accelerate? It should elicit the same enervation effects as jump squats while the engraining the right movement for heavy squatting.
 
strong enough? said:
Why make it so complicated? A jump squat onto the toes is just different enough from conventional squats to actually confuse the neural pathways for the squat.

Why not just perform your squat warmup sets with a concerted effort to accelerate? It should elicit the same enervation effects as jump squats while the engraining the right movement for heavy squatting.
Click to expand...

That is what I was saying really, enough weight to just lift off a bit but not so that I'm getting about a foot in the air
 
Bazza20 said:
Yep landing.

Things like jump squats and plyos can be awesome but you really need to build up slowly. Without a coach the safest bet is jumping up onto a box. You get the explosiveness without the landing, can also add a weight vest later.
Click to expand...

Did develop some patella pain from jump squats a few months ago too.

Had no idea what attributed it at the time, but in retrospect i guess this was the cause. Haven't done them since and haven't experienced any patella pain.
 
That blog link is good but I wish they wouldn't spend half the article explaining how gravity works lol
 
I think the kneeling jumps are going to be the best way to do this after looking around and following your advices. Would these actually develop good reactive strength, due to the fact that there is no jumping after landing?

Maybe a kneeling jump into a jump squat would be good and the risk of fucking up my knees is severely reduced by the simple fact that I'll be limited by my kneeling jump
 
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