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Machines barbells

callan said:
free weights > machines
and i quote my mate "i can come to yours and workout but i will need to go back to genesis to do the ab machine" i then continued to lecture him about how compound movements work the abs.
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It sounds like you think machines are useless.. i disagree.

Sure most compound movements will hit the abs.. (thought you didn't care about abs bro:p), for some it might be enough stimulation for abs, others.. not enough. Me i do hanging leg raises/planks/ crunches sometimes, and it hits my abs harder than a squat would for me. In before im not squatting right..
 
dandexter said:
I don't personally see why anyone would use a machine over a barbell.
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ignorance.
or that they dont like working hard.

was talking to a different mate, and talk of deadlifts and squats came up he said "i dont do them much because they are too hard"
 
LMD1234 said:
It sounds like you think machines are useless.. i disagree.

Sure most compound movements will hit the abs.. (thought you didn't care about abs bro:p), for some it might be enough stimulation for abs, others.. not enough. Me i do hanging leg raises/planks/ crunches sometimes, and it hits my abs harder than a squat would for me. In before im not squatting right..
Click to expand...
IMO if a 'machine lift' can be replaced by a 'free weight lift' it should be because the free weights will allow for natural ROM and incorporate stabilizer muscles, giving you a more beneficial lift as to that of a forced ROM without stabilizer work.

as for not hitting abs hard enough, i think this came up in another thread, i believe it boiled down to; that may be the case in an advanced bodybuilder, if not compound movements will get you by. DOMS does not mean 'u are', or 'are not' working it hard enough.
a few weeks ago the few days after heavy squats then a dose of deadlifts i could barely laugh without almost being in tears from ab doms(figure of speech, inb4 harden up comment)
 
Some machines are good because they REMOVE the stabilisers and allow you to really concentrate on moving the weight with the target muscle so they are good assistance exercises if all you care about is mass
 
LMD1234 said:
It sounds like you think machines are useless.. i disagree.

Sure most compound movements will hit the abs.. (thought you didn't care about abs bro:p), for some it might be enough stimulation for abs, others.. not enough. Me i do hanging leg raises/planks/ crunches sometimes, and it hits my abs harder than a squat would for me. In before im not squatting right..
Click to expand...

I do those occasionally as well and they do not require weight machines either. I call it my 'off day' or 'rest day' workout.


0ni said:
Some machines are good because they REMOVE the stabilisers and allow you to really concentrate on moving the weight with the target muscle so they are good assistance exercises if all you care about is mass
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That is a good point I guess, but all I care about is looking muscular and having functional strength that translates to real world activities such as lifting and carrying heavy stuff (loaded 5 tonnes of tiles and building material onto a truck yesterday by hand), over all mass of a certain muscle does not interest me as I feel it makes people look out of proportion.

May be for a person that cares about building disproportionate show muscle and does not care about functional muscle a machine will be fine.

My heroes/role models are people with massive amounts of real world strength like Brooks Kubik.

No chrome plated machines, no ferns, no toning routines just brutal real world strength:

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9c6fLaCiA4&feature=related[/ame]
 
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Some machines are useful but should not be relied on entirely. As a general rule machines suck dick in comparison to barbell work.
 
Most IFBB pros use the smith machine and hammer strength machines though
I don't see how using a lot of machines = unbalanced physique
 
0ni said:
Most IFBB pros use the smith machine and hammer strength machines though
I don't see how using a lot of machines = unbalanced physique
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NB: "General rule".

This does not apply to pros and today's pro training does not apply to the general populace.
 
0ni said:
Most IFBB pros use the smith machine and hammer strength machines though
I don't see how using a lot of machines = unbalanced physique
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I don't even know what a hammer strength machine is but I doubt anyone here is a IFBB pro, and I doubt anyone here will need one, and different rules apply wih pros.

Unbalanced physiques happen when amateurs that don't know what they are doing walk into gyms and do a hundred isolation exercises for show muscles using machines, yet never do any core strength compound exercises, just walk into any gym in Australia on any given day and you will see the curl monkeys with disproportionate pecs and biceps, and no legs and back development. Not even being able to squat and bench body weight or dead lift as it's apparently bad for your knees back and elbows:rolleyes:

At the end of the day do what you want, but the results will show in the end, if you are happy with your hammer strength machine progress and the damage the smith machine will cause to your knees and back when squatting with it all the power to you.

At the end there is not a single thing a smith machine can do that a simple barbell won't, so why bother?

EDIT: just googled hammer strength machine, now I definitely know that no one needs one!!!!
 
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people always seem to compare training techniques to what pros do, its stupid.
would you ever throw a child who cant swim into deep water? no.
 
Big Mick said:
I don't even know what a hammer strength machine is but I doubt anyone here is a IFBB pro, and I doubt anyone here will need one, and different rules apply wih pros.

Unbalanced physiques happen when amateurs that don't know what they are doing walk into gyms and do a hundred isolation exercises for show muscles using machines, yet never do any core strength compound exercises, just walk into any gym in Australia on any given day and you will see the curl monkeys with disproportionate pecs and biceps, and no legs and back development. Not even being able to squat and bench body weight or dead lift as it's apparently bad for your knees back and elbows:rolleyes:

At the end of the day do what you want, but the results will show in the end, if you are happy with your hammer strength machine progress and the damage the smith machine will cause to your knees and back when squatting with it all the power to you.

At the end there is not a single thing a smith machine can do that a simple barbell won't, so why bother?

EDIT: just googled hammer strength machine, now I definitely know that no one needs one!!!!
Click to expand...

This is more of an issue with bad training habits than machines specifically though. If you lurk getbig.com, there are quite a few IFBB pros that post there as well as "natural" pros and a lot of them say that the hammer strength machines are very good. I'm not saying that people should stop doing incline bench and switch to hammer strength incline press lol, but they are a very useful tool and it is a lot easier to focus 100% on moving the weight with the target muscle on a machine than it is a barbell
 
callan said:
people always seem to compare training techniques to what pros do, its stupid.
would you ever throw a child who cant swim into deep water? no.
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Yeah I think you missed my main point, I'm not saying that everyone should ditch barbells and switch to machines, just that some machines are a perfectly valid way of building muscle and depending on the machine provide a better RoM and strength curve to keep the tension on the muscle than barbell exercises
 
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