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  Click here to go to the first staff post in this thread.   Thread: A couple of cardio questions...

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by dave View Post
    Think of it like this. Early research leads to theories and with further research those theories have to be disregarded and the real picture comes out. It is not like the research is totally debunking having aminos available it is just that theories went a little too far as they do with limited research.

    Also the net and your friends tend to enlarge theories a little bit. I have done it believing other scientists too but when evidence stares you in the face you have to take notice.

    So have a pre workout shake and you will be fine. Have a meal after you workout when ever. I personally have a huge meal post workout as that is the time I need and have to eat due to work etc.
    In a tangentially related vein, I generally perform better when I've had something with carbs and protein in it about 30-60min before training, such as milk. I don't think it's a placebo, because I've consumed other things and expected the same results, but not gotten them...but it could still be a deep-seeded milk-fetish placebo. I'm typically in the gym for 1.5hr+ (anything under that time is a short session to me; anything over 2hr is probably because I've been talking to people too long during rest periods), and then I'll normally walk home, which is another half hour. I'll either have a PWO (just a drink of milo, usually) on the way home or once I get home. But when I have my PWO, it's not so much because I'm paranoid that the cortisol fairies will steal my protein synthesis, it's just that by the time I have it, the last thing (other than water) that I've consumed is a glass of milk about 3-4hr ago.
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  • #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by pistachio View Post
    I know, i am still always somewhat hesitant to jump on the latest bandwagon tho....



    I'm curious Fadi that you responded to that, but didn't address any of the topic related to PWO nutrition?

    I know you are (were?) a huge fan of the 3-4:1 carb-protein ratio. Have you been converted, or just didn't want to argue your point?
    Sorry about that, I was simply addressing a specific point relating to what I've written.

    Now to the drink around workout time. I see that some are talking about some new studies etc., however at the end of the day nothing beats hands on. In addition to that, nothing beats knowing one's self and how one responds to different approaches.

    There are times when we do a particular thing based on some study, yet there are other times when we simply do based on our intuition. Now as far as I'm concerned, if something has been working for me, then no study or studies are going to affect a change in my approach.

    Let's get more specific here. I know that I have a fast metabolism, and I also know that if I don't take advantage of what some studies call the "window of opportunity" right after a workout, then as time goes by, I would go from looking like a bodybuilder who's building, to one that looks like a bodybuilder who's cutting. In other words, I would lose instead of gain, which defeats the purpose of working out in the first place (for me).

    I have been experimenting with yet another approach for a pre workout drink involving short and medium chain fatty acids, as well as specific foods that are ultra low on the glycimic index, yet have a profound effect on insulin release. It would all be in an article I've yet to put up on the forum. I'm just fine tuning few things at the moment both in theory and practice.

    I’ll leave you with this: never underestimate the psychology of bodybuilding. The way you feel would determine the way you eat, and the way you eat also does have a profound effect on the way you feel. If I’ve just finished a brutal workout, and (based on some study) I’ve decided to have nothing, the mere empty feeling in my stomach may be bad enough to play havoc with my mind which would in turn place me in more of a catabolic state than I’m already in.

    You’ve got to be content (and convinced) with what you’re doing, feeling comfortable about it all the way. Just as there are many bodybuilding programs that work, there are also many approaches to eating that also work. You’ve got to find what works best for you and make it your own. That’s what separates a champion from the rest.

    Cheers,

    Fadi.
    1984 Age 18, BW 73kg: FS195kg, BS200kg, 162.5 3x10, PC 140kg, C&J 160kg. 1987 Age 22, BW 77kg BS 130kg x20, 120kg x50.


  • #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaxBrenner View Post
    You haven't read any of my posts have you?

    Read the links I posted in my first response, it explains it all.

    The most important part of nutrient timing is consuming your DAILY nutrient requirements. How and when you have your DAILY nutrient requirements is irrelevant to body composition or energy balance.

    Think of it like this, what would HAVE the biggest effect on body composition, if you a) consumed a PWO shake then didn't eat what you should have for the day or b) didn't have a PWO shake yet consumed what you needed for the day?

    If you want to do it, all good. But as I've explained it is unnecessary

    FYI, unless you have not been eating for 3 full days, you ain't any place near catabolic town

    PS, I trained FASTED and don't eat or consume anything post workout until 5 hours after I've finished training............Gaining strength, building muscle etc etc. Our bodys are much smarter than we think! It will super-compensate without us telling it too
    I have a question for you, according to your knowledge/research.

    Ok, so you say that the amount of calories per meal or meal timing etc is irrelevant, it is only the total macros for the day correct?

    In that case, why is the cutoff point a day? ie Couldn't you eat less calories one day, more on another, so long as overall you have the same amount? Or do you subscribe to carb cycling, high/low calorie days etc.

    It seems that there is a cutofff somewhere, ie, at SOME point, the amount of calories/macros within a certain time frame IS important. Not per meal, according to you and others, but per day. But why per day, not say per week?

    Do you get what I am trying to say?
    Before I started training: 60 something kgs
    Long term goal: 90-95kgs lean/ripped (5-8%bf)
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  • #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by pistachio View Post
    I have a question for you, according to your knowledge/research.

    1- Ok, so you say that the amount of calories per meal or meal timing etc is irrelevant, it is only the total macros for the day correct?

    2 - In that case, why is the cutoff point a day? ie Couldn't you eat less calories one day, more on another, so long as overall you have the same amount? Or do you subscribe to carb cycling, high/low calorie days etc.

    3 - It seems that there is a cutofff somewhere, ie, at SOME point, the amount of calories/macros within a certain time frame IS important. Not per meal, according to you and others, but per day. But why per day, not say per week?

    4 - Do you get what I am trying to say?
    1 - Yes it is the total calories and macronutrient make that determines body composition.

    2 & 3 - The whole cut off for a 'day' in calories and macronutrients etc is simply for the easy of tracking. You could do a weekly intake if you wanted but the simple fact of tracking and having a schedule on a day to day basis makes things easier to adhere to. Long term calorie and macornutirent intake is what determines body composition, not day to day changes. If it was a meal to meal or even day to day situation, why has studies shown that metabolic slow down does not occur until the 72 hour mark without food (some have even show 96 hours)?

    4 - Yes,I get what you are trying to say

    You must remember, the whole post workout thing/importance was promoted by COMPANIES that had products to sell and where based on studies only looking at fasted (no food) training and the direct training time frame. As others have mention, research and science has gotten much more in depth and they have a much better understanding compared to the early 90's. These 'findings' are not so new, but with most things old dogmas die hard.

    So now studies have since been done that have focused on the WHOLE day etc and has just proven that timing is meaningless. Unless you are an endurance athlete with multiple training sessions in the one day, timing of nutrient intake is of no importance. Timing of nutrient intake is purely personal preference. If you wish to continue to follow those protocols, go for it
    Last edited by MaxBrenner; 17-10-2011 at 01:26 PM.


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    Ok, thanks for clarifying all that MB.

    I will continue to have a sizeable meal after the gym, as I feel I owe it to myself to have a decent feed after destroying myself at the gym.

    But I won't bother with post workout shakes anymore then. Should help to drop the calories too.

    I will continue to have the BCAAs during my workout, more so just to get some BCAAs in me, especially as I won't be having much protein powder anymore.

    So I take it you feel Calcium Caseinate before bed (or at any time really) is useless then?
    Before I started training: 60 something kgs
    Long term goal: 90-95kgs lean/ripped (5-8%bf)
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  • #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by pistachio View Post
    Ok, thanks for clarifying all that MB.

    I will continue to have a sizeable meal after the gym, as I feel I owe it to myself to have a decent feed after destroying myself at the gym.

    But I won't bother with post workout shakes anymore then. Should help to drop the calories too.

    I will continue to have the BCAAs during my workout, more so just to get some BCAAs in me, especially as I won't be having much protein powder anymore.

    So I take it you feel Calcium Caseinate before bed (or at any time really) is useless then?
    No problem at all mate

    This is what I think of protein powder, seriously - The BodyEvolution Report: What You Need To Know About Supplements - Protein Powder

    Unless your protein intake is below minimum requirements to stimulate protein synthesis (around 1.6g/kg) BCAA's are not required. But again, totally up to you if you wish to use them

    Eat what you want and need, when you want


  • #37
    Brosef

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    Quote Originally Posted by pistachio View Post
    For the people on this forum that know a lot more about cardio than I do, I have a few questions for you.... I posted a bit of this in my log, but not sure how many people read it, so thought I'd put it here as well.

    1) I am thinking of doing about 20 minutes of HIIT cardio on the treadmill at my gym. What would be a good structure for this type of training?

    1min low intensity, 45 seconds high? Bearing in mind that the treadmill takes 5-10 seconds to speed up or slow down.

    2) Is it ok to do cardio before or after a workout? If so, which one is better?

    The way my workouts are structured, I can manage to come in on ONE separate day to do designated cardio, but if I want to do TWO sessions, it'll have to be on a gym day.
    You preferably want to keep Cardio and Weights separate Nutman. None of this walking crap either as I know you don't weigh 300lbs and aren't competing in any Bodybuilding or Strength sports.

    Look up how Wendler does his HIIT Hill Sprints/Treadmill workouts. Wendler learnt that off me.


  • #38
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    Walking is something we should all do everyday. It's not Cardio. It's just a natural function we should all do everyday.


  •   This is the last staff post in this thread.   #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by L.P.S. View Post
    Walking is something we should all do everyday. It's not Cardio. It's just a natural function we should all do everyday.
    How much?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shrek View Post
    How much?
    As you would have seen I was actually going to start a thread, but too many kunts gripe about threads being started, on a forum already low in traffic.

    You do as much Walking as you like Shrek. I know how much the research says you should do for Health benefits but I couldn't be fucked spending my Saturday night arguing with you Muthatrukkers!


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