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clean and press. What are your thoughts?

El Freako said:
Why the hell would it hinder it? Cleans are commonly used as dynamic assistance work for deadlifts. Pressing is assistance for bench. The clean and press is two birds with one stone. Furthermore for non-powerlifters the clean and press is a staple because it is as close to full-body strength exercise as you are going to get. Its less technical than the jerk or snatch and more based on speed and brute force.
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Yeah you're 100% correct, clean + pressing less than 40% of your deadlift will have a great effect on the speed of your pulls and won't add unnecessary volume whatsoever! Bench press and deadlifts are two separate exercises and should be trained separately otherwise you're just training to increase your C+P
 
0ni said:
Yeah you're 100% correct, clean + pressing less than 40% of your deadlift will have a great effect on the speed of your pulls and won't add unnecessary volume whatsoever! Bench press and deadlifts are two separate exercises and should be trained separately otherwise you're just training to increase your C+P
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Sorry, was there some sarcasm inferred in that first sentence?
 
0ni said:
Yeah you're 100% correct, clean + pressing less than 40% of your deadlift will have a great effect on the speed of your pulls and won't add unnecessary volume whatsoever! Bench press and deadlifts are two separate exercises and should be trained separately otherwise you're just training to increase your C+P
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says the guy who overtrained squatting 60% of his supposed 1RM once or twice a week LOL

Also says the guy who believes that you absolutely need to train other lifts to work on imbalances despite probably being the weakest person on here

While I don't necessarily agree that Power Cleans will help your deadlift as they're somewhat different pulls (imo Dynamic deads with 50-60% 1RM for 2-3s would be more 'lift specific') the whole "too much volume" is a load of shit. Olympic lifts are probably some of the easiest to recover from due to the eccentric component being so small compared to say a squat.
 
0ni said:
It wasn't inferred
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You're agreeing with me? The second sentence contradicts the first.

Bench and deadlift can share assistance work. Bench pressing requires lots of upper back strength and scap retraction just like deadlifts. If you train with full-body sessions then using C&Ps is just training efficiency.
 
The Hamburgler said:

says the guy who overtrained squatting 60% of his supposed 1RM once or twice a week LOL

Also says the guy who believes that you absolutely need to train other lifts to work on imbalances despite probably being the weakest person on here

While I don't necessarily agree that Power Cleans will help your deadlift as they're somewhat different pulls (imo Dynamic deads with 50-60% 1RM for 2-3s would be more 'lift specific')
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True speed deads are more full lift specific but cleans are meant to especially good for the lockout portion. Plus they just make you fucking strong all over. :cool:

Jim Wendler recommends them as a kind of warm-up to deads too.
 
The Hamburgler said:

says the guy who overtrained squatting 60% of his supposed 1RM once or twice a week LOL

Also says the guy who believes that you absolutely need to train other lifts to work on imbalances despite probably being the weakest person on here

While I don't necessarily agree that Power Cleans will help your deadlift as they're somewhat different pulls (imo Dynamic deads with 50-60% 1RM for 2-3s would be more 'lift specific') the whole "too much volume" is a load of shit. Olympic lifts are probably some of the easiest to recover from due to the eccentric component being so small compared to say a squat.
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Er I never said that what I am squatting now is 140kg and clean & press is a fucking retarded way to fix muscle imbalances. What is the main point of what you're trying to say? Please explain why anyone should clean & press unless they are trying to increase their c&p
 
To get stronger?

El Freako said:
True speed deads are more full lift specific but cleans are meant to especially good for the lockout portion. Plus they just make you fucking strong all over. :cool:

Jim Wendler recommends them as a kind of warm-up to deads too.
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Yeah, as as the saying goes there a many ways to skin a cat!

If I wanted to do dynamic work for deads I'd do it Westside style but that's only cos I suck at the Olympic lifts and have a man-crush on Louie Simmons
 
0ni said:
Please explain why anyone should clean & press unless they are trying to increase their c&p
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-Develops strength and power. A staple exercise for rugby players.
-Combined leg, posterior chain, upper-back, shoulder and tricep exercise. Training efficiency.
-It makes you fucking awesome.

Why the hell shouldn't you clean and press?
 
El Freako said:
-Develops strength and power. A staple exercise for rugby players.
-Combined leg, posterior chain, upper-back, shoulder and tricep exercise. Training efficiency.
-It makes you fucking awesome.

Why the hell shouldn't you clean and press?
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This ^

Clean and press - one of my favourite exercises for sure. I'd be the only one who does them at my gym though.
 
El Freako said:
-Develops strength and power. A staple exercise for rugby players.
-Combined leg, posterior chain, upper-back, shoulder and tricep exercise. Training efficiency.
-It makes you fucking awesome.

Why the hell shouldn't you clean and press?
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Why not train them separately and lift more in both exercises?
 
Thanks, you obviously can't explain your reasoning so I will leave this thread until you have real answers
 
0ni said:
Why not train them separately and lift more in both exercises?
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That's the trainees prerogative. I personally used them after my military press. It combines more pressing volume with some extra posterior chain and upper back work. I often use cleans as a warm up to deads.
 
El Freako said:
That's the trainees prerogative. I personally used them after my military press. It combines more pressing volume with some extra posterior chain and upper back work. I often use cleans as a warm up to deads.
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So you agree with my previous statement 'there is no reason to do c&p unless you want to increase in c&p or want to do it'. I'm not saying that it is a 'bad' exercise, just that it offers no benefit over cleaning or pressing separately
 
I think you'll find El Freako is doing it to get stronger. And there is the advantage of training efficacy, which given your tendency to overtrain I thought you would be all over like a rash. Remind me next time I want to do cleans, and presses, that I should clean the weight, walk it from my platform into the rack so I can take off 2.5kg, unrack it and begin to press. But wait . . .

0ni said:
Why hinder your squat and deadlift progress with cleaning the weight you press when you could just take it out the power rack and press it?
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No, I better not do any cleaning in case I hinder my squat or deadlift. Guess I better hire someone to load the bar for me as well in case I overtrain my back and posterior chain
 
0ni said:
So you agree with my previous statement 'there is no reason to do c&p unless you want to increase in c&p or want to do it'. I'm not saying that it is a 'bad' exercise, just that it offers no benefit over cleaning or pressing separately
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No, I sure as hell do not agree with you. I do C&P to get stronger, not just for my pressing but for my bench and deadlift also.

Seriously, how many years training experience do you have?
 
The Hamburgler said:
I think you'll find El Freako is doing it to get stronger. And there is the advantage of training efficacy, which given your tendency to overtrain I thought you would be all over like a rash. Remind me next time I want to do cleans, and presses, that I should clean the weight, walk it from my platform into the rack so I can take off 2.5kg, unrack it and begin to press. But wait . . .



No, I better not do any cleaning in case I hinder my squat or deadlift. Guess I better hire someone to load the bar for me as well in case I overtrain my back and posterior chain
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I doubt that your clean is the same weight as your press and if they progress at exactly the same weight, you're probably doing something wrong. I'm sure that El Freako get's great results from doing C+P. Doing c+p is NOT an 'efficient' way to train when you're cleaning far less than your max clean and it certainly won't increase your pressing faster than pressing. If you want to c+p then fine, you will get decent results but as I said before you don't NEED to do it unless you want to
 
Did my first training session with cleans tonight... Loved every minute of it.... Could feel every muscle in my body energized as I pushed into the floor and pulled the weight up....

Did cleans 3 sets, front squats 3 sets, and leg press 3 sets....

Did not press tonight as im set to do chest, shoulders and tri Thursday...

Will be looking to incorporate a clean and press movment into my workout for the near future...
 
0ni said:
I doubt that your clean is the same weight as your press and if they progress at exactly the same weight, you're probably doing something wrong. I'm sure that El Freako get's great results from doing C+P. Doing c+p is NOT an 'efficient' way to train when you're cleaning far less than your max clean and it certainly won't increase your pressing faster than pressing. If you want to c+p then fine, you will get decent results but as I said before you don't NEED to do it unless you want to
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It is an efficient way if you want to get your sessions over faster.

Its assistance work. I don't want to spend ages in the gym but I want upper back, pressing and posterior chain work. Its efficient for me to combine all three.

We never said you need to do anything. You said we shouldn't.
 
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