Reducing bodyfat versus bodyweight

Hi All,
Having hit the big five-oh, I want to make some changes to what I eat to strip away some layers of fat. I am not looking to get to the point of bodybuilder competition, but maybe get to see my abs and some vascularity.

Dropping weight to me only seems to be part of the answer, as losing too fast means you might only lose muscle and fluid, not fat. So you could end up fatter but lighter?

At present, I don't count calories, carbs, protein or fats. I try to eat relatively clean most of the time, but I like the occasional beer usually on a weekend.

I reckon I need to go into calorie deficit but wonder if this just ends up in lost weight, not fat. I don't mind doing some 'counting' but would like some guidance.

I currently workout 3 times per week, doing full body over 2 workouts. I do some brisk walking (30-40 minutes) 3-5 times per week.

Any advice and/or links to sites that might help?

Alan aragon and lyle mcdonald will help you out education wise. You need to either start counting calories (or making your own meals up to match your needs to take to work etc) or forget this idea and just go for a slow weight loss and hope for the best.

The only way you can lose weight is by knowing your calorie intake and ensuring you are in an appropriate calorie deficit. So you must count and keep track of your calories if you wish to achieve the goals you want.

You can lose weight fast or slow it is up to you. As long as you are weight training and have adequate protein and fat intake you will limit the amount of muscle that is 'lost'. I guess the promotion of slow weight gain is better, is just simply for the fact that adherence to the 'diet' of 'program' will be higher if you have not done it before. Think about it, making a total lifestyle change is going to be a little harder to adjust to than making smaller but regular changes over time. But with that said, if there is a will there is a way! It just comes down to your level of commitment

Good luck with it!

piecone said:

I currently workout 3 times per week, doing full body over 2 workouts. I do some brisk walking (30-40 minutes) 3-5 times per week.

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I know, I'm beginning to sound like a broken record here, but for me the emphasis or the place I like to tweak first would be your engine. My interest would be to make it a petrol guzzler by upping its revs.

Here's how: Overweight? Not a problem!

Elite athletes are not lean because they eat like a sparrow no; they're lean due to the amount of activity they're involved in on a daily basis. Training twice a day on most days is the norm. Fast engines need energy to operate at the highest level, which would in turn produce the best results. No, I'm not saying that there's no room for some slight caloric reduction (if you insist), but I am saying let us explore other options first, options that would not deprive us of our energy, energy to maintain some seriously productive workouts.

Let's look at this backwards if you will. You're presented with a male who has trouble gaining weight. So, (taking the calorie approach), you focus your questions on what he's been eating and how many calories does his day add up to etc. Then he tells you that he eats the equivalent of/between 25-27 BigMacs a day (in calories)!!! Now, will you still be asking him about calories or will you now shift gears and begin to look somewhere else for answers? I know, that was me in that example, and the only way for me to add on the beef was to reduce/slow my revs/metabolism. The flipside of this coin would be someone whose aim is to lose weight. Now upon examining what the person is eating, you find that it's not excessive, and that makes me look at speeding up the metabolism instead of focusing (first) on calorie reduction, calorie counting, and/or simply busying myself with calories. Eat food would be my advice and by food I mean real food and get moving frequently.

Amazing things begin to take place at the cellular level, at the respiration/energy factory, the mitochondria when you increase their density. I'm going to stop here or else this will just keep on going.......

PS: Dave and Max, first thank you for your professional replies as always. I'd just like to add that exercise as we know it (at a higher level of intensity) does wonders in producing that feel good/feel high chemical we call dopamine. I'd much rather let dopamine do the talking (as it will) when it comes to calorie regulation and general outlook on life.


Fadi.

Excellent post Fadi.

While I agree with you fadi that exercise will definitely help, i feel diet is way more important than exercise when losing weight.

I read a good quote somewhere the other day " you can't outrun your fork". I think that puts it well.

Back last year when i was doing footy training 3 times a week for 2 hours, weights 4 times a week, running on non footy training nights as well as a physical job. I was still easily able overeat on so called clean food if i didn't watch my calories and put on weight.

Sure elite athletes will burn heaps of calories from training many hours a day but how many regular people have the time or motivation to do that.

Bazza20 said:

While I agree with you fadi that exercise will definitely help, i feel diet is way more important than exercise when losing weight.

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Hello there Bazza,

First a thank you for your reply and for sharing your personal experience with us here. Now to the topic at hand...

You see Bazza, no where do I say that one aspect or one path is more important than the other when it comes to losing excess weight. What I have said however, is let us first focus on caloric expenditure through the physical/exercise pathway before we turn our attention to the diet. Please note that I'm not (as I've stated) against a slight reduction in overall calories to help the person get a move on if you like. In fact both aspects to losing weight go together, that is an attention too diet as well as an attention to exercise. My emphasis though is in favour of an exercise dominant program above that of a diet dominant one, that's all really. I gave my reasons and they were all related to the speed of one's metabolism or lack thereof. I see it all the time; overweight people are not so because of the tremendous calorie intake they take in on a daily basis, but it's because they don't do anything in the way of physical activity (or enough of it) to enable their body to burn the excess calories.

Next time you meet some overweight friend of yours, ask them what they eat and then calculate the sum total of their caloric intake. I bet you'd see that it would not correspond to the overweight state that they are in. But then when you realise that they hardly move, you would also realise that their body is working overtime doing its best to hold on to each and every single calorie they are eating. This happens for two reasons:

1. They may be eating plenty of dense calories but they mainly empty calories lacking proper vitamins and minerals, which makes them (although overweight) undernourished.

2. An undernourished body does its best to hold on to ingested calories by any means possible. One of those means is slowing one's metabolism right down to turtle/snail speed in order to preserve every bit of food that goes in.

Furthermore and as I have mentioned already, dopamine is related to physical activity/exercise. Food does not do much here. What food would trigger is another chemical we know as serotonin. This chemical also makes you feel good, but it's not the same "feel good feel high" that dopamine gives but it's more of a "chill out/laid back/relaxed/sleepy" type of feel good. I know which one I'd want in my corner if my intention is to have some rocking workouts which in turn would motivate me to look at my food intake more closely.

Sure elite athletes will burn heaps of calories from training many hours a day but how many regular people have the time or motivation to do that.

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Sure I understand. Maybe having been a former elite athlete myself, my expectation of other "normal" people may be a bit too high. But I'm happy with that and I find that I can motivate someone just enough if not to turn them into an elite athlete, to at least transform them from being a 4 cylinder machine to a roaring V8 beast. Sure, they won't turn into the supercar supercharged V8 that we see at Bathurst, but they would at least go up few cylinders which would enable them to chew through their love handles like a hot knife cutting through butter.

Please note, this is my approach and I stand by it. Being my approach to losing weight does not make it right or wrong since we all know that there are as many different approaches as there are many different over or under weight people out there. So please note again, this is not about my way or the highway no; it is simply the way I like to approach the “weight” issue and one’s metabolism is where I like to focus first. Thank you for reading.



PS: Cast your mind to when you saw water being poured on or into some red hot iron. Instant evaporation is what takes place. That's something an underweight person knows only too well. He eats like 3 men with not much to show for it. Now picture the opposite scenario with an overweight person who does not eat enough to look the way he/she does. For me, it's in that metabolism (the temperature of that inner iron) where I want to focus first.


Fadi.

Thanks for the detailed reply. I agree with you.

Both diet and exercise obviously help weight loss, just my plan of attack would have more focus on diet than your approach. No big deal.

One thing though. I have never come across a fat person that eats very little, although I am sure there are some out there. Every overweight person i know all say they eat little but when you are actually around them you see what they actually eat and find out they are lying to themselves.

Same with the skinny blokes, they all say they eat heaps and heaps to them is usually lucky to add up to 2000 calories a day.

Fadi, Thanks for the kind words and your posts are always though provoking and detailed. You do bring up some valid points about training and agree that the right type of training is required for success.

I can see it from both sides, and like Bazza I would go with diet being the king and training being the queen. They work hand in hand.

I can see how there are times of metabolic slow down through calorie and/or nutrient restriction and in excessive activity. I see that happen all to frequently. This is where managing the diet correctly can limit hormonal/metabolic downgrade and ensuring the calorie deficit is not to excessive and that maintenance calories are being consumed 1 day a week or 2 days every 10-14 days.

Much respect as always Fadi.

Thanks everyone for your valued input. I think I'll adopt a bit of both - increase cardio (I like long distance power walking). Weather is warming so I can start walking home from the gym (around 4K) again, and be a clean eater.

piecone said:

Thanks everyone for your valued input. I think I'll adopt a bit of both - increase cardio (I like long distance power walking). Weather is warming so I can start walking home from the gym (around 4K) again, and be a clean eater.

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Don't stress over 'eating clean', just ensure you consume your required calorie intake while meeting your minimum protein and fat requirements (and micronutrient requirements) and then make up the rest of your calories from what ever you like!

Have a read of this - The Dirt on Clean Eating | Wannabebig

Where to start.

For a person who is carrying or who has been carrying adipose tissue for a protracted time is going to find it a challenge to not only lose it but maintain that level short of surgically removing those fat cells.

A person at your age will really need to work hard eating smaller amounts or servings of nutrient dense food, that is; food that is not processed, for example, not quick oats, but steel cut oats, not white bread, but full wheat bread, under cooked meat instead of over cooked meat and generally choosing full fat products over low fat.

Using exercise for controlling fat levels is specious at best and should be viewed as such;
Walking for maintaining hip mobility and general wellbeing
Cardio for heart and lung health
Weight resistance exercise performed like your life depends on it because it does. And the by-products it produces.

In fact this should be the mantra for all ages.