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Squat technique

E

eav

New member
Hi Guys,

I've been watching and reading plenty videos of squatting, and hip drive seems to be a crucial component. I don't 100% grasp the execution side of the hipdrive and was wondering if anyone would care to elaborate or correct me.

Basically, when you are standing up from a squat, do you move your hips up first before straightening the rest of your body all whilst pushing off from your heel?

Also with your back, should it be completely straight, or should you have your lower back slightly curved and your chest pushed out? I find if I lean my back forward it takes pressure off my lower back, but I believe this is incorrect form? What harm can this cause?

I've actually, literally started weight training, so have decided to try to get a decent form with just bodyweight before I proceed any further.

Thank you in advance for any help.
 
I've never thought “hip-drive” when squatting, only when performing snatch/clean & jerk pulls or snatches and clean & jerks (or the power equivalent of these two lifts). When you get up from a chair, you dig your heels into the floor and push up with your quads, do you not?

As for bending forward, I say go ahead and bend as much forward as you like! I know, some are scratching their heads right now because of this statement. But there's more to it, so please listen up.

There are people whose torso is short whilst having long femur (legs). You will find that these people will tilt their body forward, so much forward sometimes that they may get a comment like: "hey buddy, lift your chest up, you're bending forward too much." That comment is wrong.

What we need to look at is that invisible center line where the bar sits high upon the trapezius and goes all the way down meeting with the middle of the lifter's foot. The only time one can criticize a lifter for not "looking" straight, is if that invisible center line has been transgressed.

An arching of the lower back when the chest is held up nice and firm is just fine and that’s the way it should be, so there’s no need to worry there. Always think rigid torso with lungs that are filled with all the air they can take in, before contemplating a descent.


Fadi.
 
cb64f125-7637-04a3.jpg
 
Thanks Fadi, thanks for clearing up some unclear points for me, I sort of have a basic idea of how a squat can be performed and hopefully will be able to apply this whilst executing the squat.

Also thanks Andy for posting that picture, I wasn't sure entirely sure if I was on the same page with Fadi about the invisible centerline, but makes perfect sense now.

Thanks guys for your input and hopefully happy squatting for me.

Much appreciated!
 
After squatting for some time now and learning primarily from books, videos, Internet, I would strongly recommend heading to a strength training gym and getting proper coaching. Squatting (like deadlifting) is not 'hard' to learn, but it's easy to do wrong and easy to injure yourself with little errors. It's also very hard to self assess.
Or, just post some vids here or on something like the Starting Strength forum to get your form assessed.
 
Where abouts are u eav?
I highly recommend attending a local strength gym.

The percent of lifters I've personally trained who squatted with incorrect form is high. After an hour of "resetting" back to basics most are either breaking pb's and or with less discomfort. This also includes the deadlifting and bench.

Small price to pay to be shown how to lift properly.. :)

Sent from my Desire HD using Tapatalk
 
'hip drive' is simply pushing your hips forward when standing up from a squat, by diving the hips it should stop your hips coming up before your chest.

eav said:
Basically, when you are standing up from a squat, do you move your hips up first before straightening the rest of your body all whilst pushing off from your heel?
Click to expand...

your chest and hips should come up at the same time, when your chest drops, you lose power. when your hips come up first your chest drops.
 
I've read some posts elswhere, where people advise to visualise yourself sitting down on a chair and then getting back up from that. Are the movements exactly the same as this? Or are there some variations to this movement? I notice that when I sit down on a chair then stand back up, my hip actually lifts itself up before my chest starts lifting up. So as you said Callan, the hip and chest should come up at the same time, should I adjust my movement to follow this?

Thanks again guys. Initially for me the squat looked enough like a simple exercise, but after reading, the squat is actually harder to execute as a beginner without understanding the fundamentals, and very easily to be done wrong.

I'm located in Sydney, south west and will probably look into joining a local strength training gym to correct my form early on. :)
 
Yeh I reckon depending on how you sit in/get up from a chair it could be very similar, or very different! And there are different variations on the movement and initial positioning. (I don't just mean Olympic vs Powerlifting style either, foot position, angle, knee movement are coached differently by different people).
Also depending on your current mobility or lack thereof, you might find certain parts of the movement or positioning harder than others.

FYI you may not have to join a strength focused gym (unless you want to) but they may offer to do an assessment for a small fee.
 
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Thanks for the info mobmentality. I wll probably see how I go before join a gym, but I will probably experiment various forms to see what works for me, but if if I feel discomfort that may not seem right (aside from the target muscles aching!) I'll probably head to a local gym to correct it. I guess like ceffo said, it's a small fee to pay to lift properly.

Appreciate all the helpful tips!
 
Just to expand on what I said earlier, sometimes what feels right or wrong to a person with limited mobility or minor joint dysfunction (which most people have) isn't a good indicator of whether their form is good or bad. That's why it's so important to get it checked by someone else, either in person, or via videos on forums.
But you sound like you're onto it and are starting in the right place.
Cheers.
 
Eav since your in Sydney...if no luck on forums.. websites..
You can come by ptc Sydney and Christian or myself will check out your 3 lifts in one session.
I tell my clients to better get it right first time than injure yourself later on and waste months in injury.


Sent from my Desire HD using Tapatalk
 
I've been doing very light weighted squats today, and different from yesterday I don't feel that much tension or strain on my lower back. Hopefully what I'm doing is correct and only time will tell. I guess if it works for you, it shouldn't pose any problems?

Btw ceffo, for future reference, where is ptc syd located?
 
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9AhU8A4ZDw]YouTube - ‪230 x 3 low bar raw‬‏[/ame]

Low bar - leaning forward bar is lower in back on rear delt , push up with ass and hips drive up...


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2G7UQaQ925Q&NR=1]YouTube - ‪240kg x 2 raw highbar squat‬‏[/ame]

High bar - torso is erect bend with knees push hips forward to hold back up right... Focus on lifting the chest and holding it tight and erect during the lift.
 
mobmentality said:
Yeh I reckon depending on how you sit in/get up from a chair it could be very similar, or very different! And there are different variations on the movement and initial positioning. (I don't just mean Olympic vs Powerlifting style either, foot position, angle, knee movement are coached differently by different people).
Also depending on your current mobility or lack thereof, you might find certain parts of the movement or positioning harder than others.

FYI you may not have to join a strength focused gym (unless you want to) but they may offer to do an assessment for a small fee.
Click to expand...

Correct but your average wellness centre PT generally doesn't really place as much value on correct squatting technique as we do on here, for example the PT at my gym just couldn't understand my obsession with squatting below parallel as apparently "you don't have to go that far down". Well not unless I want it to count in a lifting comp one day...

My issues with squatting and correct form dont really appear until it gets really heavy (thats 110kg for me atm) where I tend to lean forward a bit to help straighten my legs but then the bar moves forward of the centre line, shifts the weight to the balls of my feet and puts a bit of stress on my lower back.

So I am a bit confused. I would have thought perfect form should make a lift easier? (rather than bad form/cheating/leaning forward).

Maybe Im the body type Fadi mentioned and this leaning forward is good for me provided I keep my chest up.

(you can see my squat technique in my training log from last week if you follow the link below)
 
Hirdy said:
So I am a bit confused. I would have thought perfect form should make a lift easier? (rather than bad form/cheating/leaning forward).

Maybe Im the body type Fadi mentioned and this leaning forward is good for me provided I keep my chest up.

(you can see my squat technique in my training log from last week if you follow the link below)
Click to expand...

Hello there Hirdy,

I've got few points to make, so bear with me please.

1. Re perfect form making a lift easier; no, perfect form is not taught to make a lift easier necessarily, but to prevent injury. Now if this was a weightlifting forum and you made that comment, I would have no choice but to fully agree with you. In other words, proper form will allow an Olympic weightlifter to make a heavy weight feel lighter than it actually is. But that's weightlifting where power is concerned. Squat is not about power but raw strength. Here, the issue differs a bit. Forget squat for a moment and think barbell curls for me okay. There's the perfect/proper way of curling the bar and then there's a way where you start strict then move onto cheating. Now what is cheating? Cheating here would make the lift easier and there's a good reason for it. It's called bringing in more muscles to join the party. So now by cheating (utilising more muscles), the lift (the barbell) has more muscles lifting it and not just the biceps anymore. Muscles such as the front deltoids, lower back etc. A beginner's lower back has not developed like an advance lifter; hence you would not recommend cheating lest they injure themselves. However I would recommend cheating to an advanced lifter so as to add few more reps to an already exhausted biceps and take the whole set to a new level of forced adaptation.

2. Re the dropping the chest issue. Please do not confuse dropping your chest forward with cheating. I wrote about the dropping of the chest on someone who feels right at home doing so based on their long femur (long legs) short torso (upper body). Here, there, and everywhere and everytime Hirdy I would not tolerate nor would I recommend for a second that the lifter lose sight of maintaining that invisible center line over his mid foot. Once that line has been violated, you will risk injury. But wait Fadi, I'm violating that center line and the bloody thing is becoming easier for me to lift, what gives? We go back to the barbell curl example. The reason the lift has become easier, is because now you're bringing in/utilising the most powerful muscle, which incidentally is also the biggest muscle in your body and that is your glutes. Once the glutes have more share of the lift than the legs, the lift will become easier but...

But with time you will risk a lower back injury. Why? Because now you placing stress on your lower back muscles which are not ready to handle such a weight that could easily be handled by your much more powerful glutes. It's similar to one taking steroids, getting mighty strong in a record time, only to suffer joint problems (and possible muscle tears). Why? Because joints, like anything else, need time to adapt to the heavier load, and since steroids do there thing in record time, that time factor/duration is no longer availabe.

That is all for now Hirdy. Take care.


Fadi.
 
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