double sessions and recovery?

I train in mma as well as doing weights (mainly for strength for mma)

What are people's thoughts on doing double sessions in one day and then next day total rest? I used to do mma MON,WED & SAT and weights TUE,THU and sometimes SUN.

Thinking of doing lunchtime weights MON & WED to go with mma training in the arvo and maybe a weights session FRI. I figure with equal nutrition and sleep pattern as long as the weights during the day don't hinder progress at mma then it has to be better to have a full days rest.


So previously:
MON: mma
TUE: weights
WED: mma
THU: weights
FRI: sometimes weights (usually lighter because SAT mma is circuit training)
SAT: mma circuit training
SUN: sometimes weights

Thinking of:
MON: lunch weights, pm: mma
TUE: rest
WED: lunch weights, pm: mma
THU: rest
FRI: sometimes weights (usually lighter because SAT mma is circuit training)
SAT: mma circuit training
SUN: sometimes weights

Thoughts?

How do others program their sports/weight training?

I trained double sessions heavy weights/ complexex HIIT 6 times a week for 6 months..... one session morning one session night.. when i was doing this I was physically at my best ever strong/fit/ conditioned.

Its not about the trining its about eating and recovery... if you can get 8 hours sleep and eat 7-8 meals a day your body recovers fine and continues to grow....

As michael said adequate food and sleep is the key.

Give it a go and see how your body reacts.

Well I think I get adequate sleep and I believe my diet is pretty good so the only change will be the training.

Max trains 6 days a week and he's a bawse, give it a go

Can you get weights done in the morning? I've read somewhere before that if you're going to double up your sessions you should leave at least 8hrs between them to let your CNS recover.

Fucking phone.

El Freako said:

Can you get weights done in the morning? I've read somewhere before that if you're going to double up your sessions you should leave at least 8hrs between them to let your CNS recover.

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I would never do any kind of heavy squats or deadlifts in the morning. Intradiscal pressure in spinal discs is 240% higher in the morning than normal due to hydration and it can take 3 hours from rising for discs to return to normal function. Spinal ligaments are also significantly stiffer. This significantly increases the risk of spinal disc and ligament injury when putting compressive load on your spine (ie even if your form is perfect).

^Fuck. Now you tell me.

I think you'll find weights @ lunch then mma in arvo fine. The type of training is different enough in terms of the strength and demands that mma requires that doing weights earlier in the day shouldn't be much of an issue. I used to do weight training followed by krav maga sessions in a similar pattern, and it was never a particular issue, except if you do sets to exhaustion.

I could do am but generally everytime I have, I get shitty workouts in. Not much of a morning person. I prefer to do some mobility stuff in the morning just to wake up well.

strong enough? said:

I would never do any kind of heavy squats or deadlifts in the morning. Intradiscal pressure in spinal discs is 240% higher in the morning than normal due to hydration and it can take 3 hours from rising for discs to return to normal function. Spinal ligaments are also significantly stiffer. This significantly increases the risk of spinal disc and ligament injury when putting compressive load on your spine (ie even if your form is perfect).

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You should send an email to Bill Pearl and warn him to stop lol

also have never had issues with AM lifting...lol. almost always do deads during an AM session!!! haha

I'm not that strong, but I've been squatting at 5am (that is after waking up at 4:40am) 2-3 times a week for the past 2 years.
for the 5 years before that, it was at 6:30am

strong enough? said:

I would never do any kind of heavy squats or deadlifts in the morning. Intradiscal pressure in spinal discs is 240% higher in the morning than normal due to hydration and it can take 3 hours from rising for discs to return to normal function. Spinal ligaments are also significantly stiffer. This significantly increases the risk of spinal disc and ligament injury when putting compressive load on your spine (ie even if your form is perfect).

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Bro science

I dead-lift early morning I have done so for quite some time 5x5 200kg followed by shurgs, followed by iso hammer leg press 20reps 250kg as part of my full body workout at fitness first knox, it was excellent, no-one there, I built a very strong back with the workout, but I have found as ive aged that I do need to work a bit later In the morning compared to what I use to do, I'm lifting less as well.

I was waiting for the bro science claim.

I never claimed you would get injured training heavy early in the morning. I merely said there was increased risk of injury when applying loaded compression or flexion to the spine shortly after waking up. The risk is worst within 1 hour of rising (refer to the research of Dr Stuart McGill, among others, for the science to back this up). The risk can last up to 3 hours. Based on that risk, I wouldn't do it if I could schedule it in another time, particularly because I have had low back injuries. Having a back injury makes you very conscious of spinal stability - I used to be able to get relief just by flexing my abs that's how sensitive I was. People who have suffered back injuries would know first hand how different mornings feel to evenings.

I'm well aware many people squat and deadlift heavy in the morning without any issues. In fact from a hormonal response perspective, it may even be better since testosterone naturally peaks in the morning. This is exactly why Bill Pearl and his crew used to train at 3am.

But none of that invalidates my basic premise. They're all factors to weigh up in making up your own mind.

Increased risk really isn't that hard a concept to understand and apply to your own situation. There is an increased risk of injury when you lift heavy weights, yet we all do it.

Ive just travelled back to the uk to compete (boxing),

I trained at a gym called st thomas gym in sheffield, 4 weeks out to prepare,

Turnt up the first morning -5degrees at 5:30am expecting to hit the pavement,

To my surprise , He said '' what you squat''

I said '' max 175kg at the mo, ive leaned down alittle''

He made me squat 5x5 130kg , then deadlift 5x5 150kgs looked at me said ,

''nice work see you at 3pm''

He then tried to explain that by doing heavy lifting first thing ,it would wake up my nervous system, and he said something else ( i was panting , sweating and shivering all at the same time) and didnt pick up on what he was saying.

The theroy was buy wakeing up yr nervous system and primeing your major muscle first thing , it prepared your body for the afternoon workout???

If anybody has heard anything more about these ideas , post up ....

As for the orginall post , mate i lift and box week in week out , recovery is key, and diet.

Sounds like that complex/nervous system stimulation that was posted in another thread, but with a bigger time lapse.
I know Collingwood are starting to buy into the "CNS warm up" before training and games.

Dunno if doing it in the morning primes you for the arvo but it's an interesting concept none the less

The intervertebral disc overpressuring in the morning thing may be true. But note that you would have to flex your spine and we are talking about heavy weights. (So Chris, that guy did not have you doing 1RM. You were lifting 5x5, so not fully heavy.)
How much do you flex your back on a Good Morning? I thought it was mostly a hip flexion?

The proteoglycans in your discs are what draws fluid into the discs and it does this so that they can support you throughout the day. By the end of the day when you go to bed you are shorter because the weight of your body etc have forced against the osmosis of the proteoglycans. So that would indicate that doing those heavy lifts at the end of the day is actually a bad thing to do, because your bags have run out of support.