Squat depth

Lots of conversation on this subject lately, lets stick it all in this thread and leave John's alone.

Those that competed or watched ProRawOne know where I stand on this subject. A squat is a deep knee bend, you must break parallel, says so in every rule book. You must also start with locked knees, thats something a lot ignore nowadays as well.

To show, in some non experimental way, the difference a few inches makes, I'll give you a situation that happened last, entirely by accident, without this subject in mind.

I had the guys do box squatting after PPP last night. We have 2 boxes we use, a low box and a high box. Low box is 30cm, high box is 45cm.

There is a total of 15cm difference, a mere 6". I've seen variance of nearly a foot in some cases with lifters squat depth.

Max last night squatted 150kg to the low box, a PB and double bodyweight. He squatted triple bodyweight to the box that was only 6" higher, a whopping 75kg. Both reps were max attempts, very hard. The low box has him well under parallel, the high box would have him pass equipped lifts I have witnessed, and have videos to prove, in CAPO comps.

A 75kg difference. This wasnt an experiment or anything like that, it proves nothing at all, I'm just using it as an example of what can be achieved by a higher squat.

Lots of talk about Robert Wilkinsons 1000lb raw squat on Powerlifting Watch.

Its not just equipped lifters that squat high either, so lets get off that subject.

Your thoughts please

BIG ROB WILKERSON 1000 RAW SQUAT! | Powerlifting Watch

The higher you squat the manlier you are. It's a fact.

Whats it like trying to break parallel in some hardcore multi ply suit and mega tight knee wraps though?

not saying you shouldnt squat below parallel btw

edit: ahh shit, just read 3rd last line

That is a massive difference PTC given the two squatting depth (box heights). How far below parallel does max go the small box?

I wish I could squat arse to grass without doing a back injury. Curse my non-flexible body

It can be done. I've hit depthish in my Metal Pro Squatter. Straps down it's alot easier. The hardest bit is keeping your form good and not buckling at the knees.

This is me Straps up with 260 + 40 in chains
[YOUTUBE]Wd-jlLESFm0[/YOUTUBE]

This is me straps down with 220
[YOUTUBE]sLzhzg0VOxI[/YOUTUBE]

It's not rocket surgery, interesting that there is a need to dedicate a thread to it.


The primary musculature being used Once the hip passes the knee is the quad and glute/hip.

it's not just double ply. My super centurion I did 300kg in training about 3-4" high, and it came up easy, last years nationals I broke parallel but got squished.
Of the two videos I thought Chucks was pretty good. Rob's was clearly high.

Mad efforts, Sherro, impressive stuff.

Even in my gyms, which are not exactly Strength & Conditioning Central, we can see a big difference in the various squatters. The other day I had a client not show, I had nothing to do, found a couple of guys who'd start working out there recently. One was stocky, the other a lanky bastard like me. 60kg on the bar, squatting to just above parallel with ease, heaps of reps.

I sorted them out, got them squatting deep, we worked back up to 60kg, they found it much harder. A week later I saw them again, "We still hurt!" they said.

New woman Anna at about 60kg claims a past squat of 120kg. The squat I'd seen her do was well above parallel, so I'm guessing that she was not casually setting national (or world, for some age classes) records in her gym while preparing for basketball. She easily did 40kg for a dozen deep reps, though. I'm confident she could do 60kg for a rep or two at least. Not many people, man or woman, walk into a mainstream gym able to squat their own bodyweight in the first week or two. Still, half her claim.

So there are two examples of the difference depth makes for an ordinary gym-goer with ordinary lifts - DOMS a week after, and roughly halving your lifts. More pain, less weights to boast about, no mystery why squats aren't usually to depth

I'm a curious noob. Why is it important to have locked knees prior to the lift? Is it a 'muscle shortening cycle' thing?

Im not sure if I squat deep enough???

In serious news, a new guy I stared training told me his 1rm was 190kg @ 105.
I said fair enough, and we worked up to it.
He did have 190 on his back, but I'm not sure if you could call what he did a squat. It was more of a 6 inch dip lol.

We ended up getting his true 1rm, it was 140kg... With a bench of 145kg lol.

He'll come good soon enough, just gotta beat the ego out of him.

The difference in Max's squats seems to adhere to the 30lb for every inch high rule.

While none of us here squats as much as Chuck or Rob, we are entirely entitled to form valid & educated opinions on the legitimacy of their squats. To me, both attempts, gutsy as they are, should be redlighted.

Using the sprinting example from the other thread, if some dude rocks up and runs 90m in 9.3 second to claim the 100m sprint record from Usain Bolt, should we all just shut up about it because we can't run as fast as either of them? No. As long as you understand the rules of the sports, you're entitled to comment.

I agree that it's not just equipped lifters that squat high. I remember watching the WPC Raw World videos. Plenty of high squats there getting passed, apart from a handful of legit ones.

I don't think lifters should be blamed for any of this though. They don't have the responsibility to enforce the rules. That's up to the federation & their refs.

This article from USAPL is a really good explanation of what judging squat depth should be about: USA Powerlifting Online Newsletter

Reading the powerlifting watch thread was hilarious.

One of the arguments in favour of high squats seems to be that the rules should be bent to make allowances for lifters using particular kinds of equipment. My personal view is that the focus should be on putting the onus back on the lifter to ensure they select equipment that will allow them to hit depth. It's not just double/multi ply either. The same thing applies to old fashion squat suits. I frequently see guys in the IPF bomb from high squats due to their suits being too tight or they're not worn in etc. Pushing the extremes of equipment is a calculated risk which is part of the sport. It adds tactics and intrigue, and makes competition interesting. But it only works if you actually punish the guy who takes the risks and fails.

The benefit of the doubt in judging should always go to the lifter, but you get to a point where you are just bending the rules. Often it also seems that the big boys with the bragging numbers are sometimes given leniency that the ordinary battlers like me wouldn't enjoy. This is just patently unfair and against the spirit of sport.

Its not only the top level either.

Check out the results from the comp at Fortus gym in SA, so many missed squats in the equipped, at an entry level novice comp. I wasnt there, so I dont know why the miss, I'm only guessing.

Are lifters taught incorrectly from day one? Are we teaching kids to be powerlifters rather than lifters?

I know Max always says, were just lifters who compete in powerlifting, not powerlifters

There is quite a difference in the two. For proof, check that thread on PW, same video, two different camps.

Between lots of missed lifts and its getting in the way of depth, it sounds like the equipment is more of a hindrance than a help.

PTC said:

Check out the results from the comp at Fortus gym in SA, so many missed squats in the equipped, at an entry level novice comp. I wasnt there, so I dont know why the miss, I'm only guessing.

Are lifters taught incorrectly from day one? Are we teaching kids to be powerlifters rather than lifters?

Click to expand...

Loosely....Equipment; not to discredit them but thats seemingly is the obvious difference between the guys that bombed and the guys that didnt.

Although its arguable to suggest that thats what comes with being a "better" powerlifter - trying to get more and more? Everyones application to a meet is different. We all take risks at meets....some just take more than others.

Dancelot said:

I don't think lifters should be blamed for any of this though. They don't have the responsibility to enforce the rules. That's up to the federation & their refs.

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Exactly my thoughts but it can be costly to the lifter...imagine being passed for high squats at a local or national level then getting to the worlds and bombing for squatting to the same height....I've been told several times by refs that I am giving away kgs because of my depth, personally I'm happy to give away those kgs to the fact that I know I'm going deep enough be white lighted anywhere. I've also heard that if you get three white lights when squatting your squatting to deep...pfffttt!

PTC said:

I know Max always says, were just lifters who compete in powerlifting, not powerlifters

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i like this, good way to put it i think.

Personally I have and always will just squat as low as my body allows me until i bounce off my calves.. I use a narrow stance however I have noticed when squatting wider stance I cant go atg as i dont have the flexibility in my hips..

Agree witht he comments that lifters are not to blame they are following what is enforced. The refs need to be much stricter.

Here's another angle on Wilkerson's squat:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQYE3LVSgAM]YouTube - Robert Wilkerson[/ame]

Still looks high to me though it's hard to tell with thighs like that exactly where his hip is.

I have a feeling that that lift was never going to be redlighted.


Is bending the rules like this a new thing in powerlifting though?

On another forum I read about lifters in the 70's using makeshift jean briefs under the singlet, tennis balls under knee wraps, and of course no video's that let us scrutinise the depth of squats.

I have no idea how true that is, but it sounds like there was always a bit of leeway for the guys pushing big weights.

I liked the judging and ProRaw and from vids I've seen IPF is also pretty good.


Like Laurie Butler said, hit depth in training and you'll be fine on the platform.

jewb question on the topic ATG = ass to ground, is this bad to achieve on every squat and at what point is butt tucking acceptable.
or is it unavoidable on ATG.