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DKD

Private Dancer
I was checking out Tyrone's log today (it looks even more impressive in the morning light, but that's another story). I noticed he mentioned Pavel's Ladder rep method for pullups.

I've noticed in the past a couple of guys journals with these weird rep schemes I couldn't understand for pullups - now at least I know there is a proper method to this approach.

Can anyone give any feedback on what they think of it, and exactly how they do it. I've done a bit of a google search....couldn't find heaps of good stuff, but I read something about stopping 2 short of your max rep set, like this.

I can do about 10 reps, so...8 sets as follows

First "set" 1 rep, second set 2, then 3, 4, so on up to final set of 8 reps.

Then repeat it if you like starting at 1 rep.

Is that how you guys do it?

What do you feel are the benefits?

I'd like to work up to weighted pullups - is this a good means of doing it, or just stick with my normal 4-5 sets of 6-10 reps?
 
Clarence Bass


Pavel’s Ladder

Alternate approach to synaptic facilitation delivers more volume in less time

In "A Small Experiment with Chin-ups" (article No. 49), I related how Pavel Tsatsouline’s "grease the groove" technique allowed me to do the most chin-ups I’d done since high school. By doing multiple sets of chin-ups spread out over the course of the day, several days a week, I was able to work up to 20 full-range chin-ups. The theory is called synaptic facilitation, which simply means doing frequent, non-exhaustive sets of a specific exercise to strengthen the nerve pathway. Bulgarian and Russian Olympic weightlifters have been using the method for years to beat the pants off the rest of the world. The problem is scheduling time to do many sets of an exercise throughout the day. It’s just not practical for most people.

That’s why I was excited to find an article by Pavel in the December 2000 issue of Milo magazine explaining "how to grease the groove on a tight schedule." He says it’s a method used by the Soviet Special Forces to meet the Spetsnaz requirement of 18 dead hang pull-ups wearing a 10-kilo (22 pound) bullet-proof vest. I tried it and it seems to work – with much less training time. It allowed me to reduce my chin-up sessions to one or two a day, and more then double my reps, while still staying fresh.

Here’s how Pavel describes the technique used by special forces personnel to work pull-ups into their busy classroom and training schedule: "We would file out to the pull-up bars and perform what we called ladders. I do a pull-up, you do one. I do two, you match me, etc. until one of us cannot keep up. Then, if we still had time, we started over. One rep, 2 reps, 3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10... 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,... 1,2,3,4,5. We totaled hundreds of pull-ups almost daily without burning out, and the extreme PT tests of our service were a breeze."

If you train alone, you can simply time your breaks by estimating how long it would take a partner to match your reps. That’s what I do, and it works fine. In fact, Pavel says it’s better that way, because "your odds of burning out are lower." To maximize volume without overtraining, you should stop each ladder one or two reps short of your limit. In other words, if you can work up to 10 reps at the top of the ladder, it’s best to stop at about 8, and then begin at 1 again. The non-competitive approach allows you to stop at a preset number that suits your capacity, not that of your partner.

The beauty of the technique is that you get a break each time you return to the bottom rung, which allows you to do more total reps. If you tried to do repeated limit sets or used the pyramid approach (1,2,3,4,5, 6,7,8,9,10, 9,8,7,6,5...), for example, fatigue would build much faster and volume would be compromised. As Pavel says, "The ladder, on the other hand, enables the strong man to grease the groove of his chosen feat with extraordinary volume."

I’ve found that to be true. During the experiment described in my earlier article, I generally did sets of 12 or 13, for about 50 total reps a day. Using the ladder technique, I can easily do 150 chin-ups in two sessions lasting a little over 15 minutes each, or occasionally in one session of about 35 minutes. ( I generally do chin-ups only two days a week, because I don’t want to interfere with my regular training sessions.) Ladders are obviously a more efficient use of one’s time, and they give your synapses plenty of work. As Pavel says, they allow more volume, without burnout, than any other structure.

I haven’t tried for a new PR, but if Pavel’s "high-volume plus specificity minus burnout" principle works as well as he says, it shouldn’t be long before I am doing more than 20 chin-ups or, better yet, working my way up to the Spetsnaz requirement of 18 chin-ups with a 10-kilo plate attached.

Give it a try, and let me know what happens. You’ll have fun, and you may be surprised at what you can accomplish.

Thanks to Pavel and his commandoes for the tip.
 
Nina used this method, she got to 16 wide grip pullups.

Max did as well, he gets over 20

Jesse is the best chinner of the lot, he goes well over 20.

We have been using it from day one at PTC, I feel its the best method around for becoming a good chinner.

When Nina started, she could only get 1-2 chins, Max was the same.
 
Nina used this method, she got to 16 wide grip pullups.

Max did as well, he gets over 20

Jesse is the best chinner of the lot, he goes well over 20.

We have been using it from day one at PTC, I feel its the best method around for becoming a good chinner.

When Nina started, she could only get 1-2 chins, Max was the same.

I'm doing roughly 5 chinups and find i'm struggling moving up so I have been using assitance machine and moving up well. Would it be a better idea to do this training to move up in my chins and dips? My goal is to do over 100 of each
 
Pavels idea was to do a lot of chin's, using a lot of people in a small space of time the idea is centered around effacy.

One way I've helped a few increase their numbers is telling them to chin every day and lose some fat.
 
I've become increasingly impressed with the lean, muscular backs that I've seen from so many MMA fighters. When my shoulder heals I plan to hit the chins like there's no tomorrow. I usually do around 5 sets, probably get to around 40 reps. I've been thinking if I really smash them (100+ reps) it would do plenty of good for achieving an impressive looking back. Several times per week as well.
 
My chin-ups have stalled for a while, maybe due to increase in body weight. Currently get about 10 from dead hang. I am started this method

T NATION | HFT 2.0: How to Add Muscle or Hit 20 Pull-ups

and am going to continue for the 4 weeks and see how i go. After that i will give the ladder a try. Always enjoy trying something new, while sticking to the basic compound exercises.
 
Interesting . . .

I may have to give Pavel's ladder a try.
I'd love to be able to knock chins out like there's no tomorrow!
 
Thanks for reading my log :)

I only started doing this recently after reading an article on another site, and boy oh boy has it helped me. I would always struggle busting out three sets of eight reps with weighted pullups, but doing them in a ladder 1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4 is SO much easier, and it totals 25 pullups :D
 
2 words: F*ckin awsome.

Doing it with a client whose max push up reps was 10 (mother) we did 61 in a row working up to 3 sets of 6.
And today working up to 3 on wide grip pull ups I did 30 in one mega-set.

I've also read somewhere that Jason Statham does them with his trainer and totals 100 in 10x10
 
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Very interesting read.
Do you think this would work in well on or after deadlift day of 5/3/1, for a bit of variation. I really struggle with wide grip pullups, especially after doing deads.
 
How many can you do in one set?
Obviously if you can do like 20 it's less taxing on your body than if you can only do 6. So the higher the number the more often you can do it.
Otherwise if your max is 8 for example, imo, you could probably work up to 4 or 5 just about every day
 
so how do you progress with these?

do more ladders, or attempt to go up a rung?

do you try to improve each week, or just maintain the ladders/rungs for a few weeks and then reset?
 
This works and works very well. Use it for any bodyweight exercise. My mrs is now doing more pushups than she has ever done in her life
 
I find it simpler not to worry about sets and ladders and the rest, and just build the total up.

If you can do 1 of a bodyweight exercise, do 5 - whether it be 5 in one go, 4 and 1, 3 and 2, or 1,1,1,1,1 or whatever, doesn't matter, just get out 5. Tomorrow, do at least 1 more. If you feel strong, add more than 1 to your total - but you have to move forward from there. For example if yesterday you did 12 and today you do 22, then tomorrow you must do 23 or more, you don't get to say, "well I was supposed to do 13 so..."

As you build up how many you can do in total, the number you can do in one go will also increase, if only because of impatience - no-one will do 50 reps as singles, you'd be there forever.

This is the method the Army uses to build up pushups. Every day the first week you do a total of 100 pushups, second week 200, and so on. Most times they will level off at about 750 pushups a day, where people can do 50 in one go.

Worked with soldiers who built up to ~15 chinups in this way, and I and clients have got to 12 or so, not really pushed beyond that.
 
I love chins and pull ups, and id say i could thank them for 50% of my back/bicep development.

I started a few years ago after reading something , somewhere that arnie wrote,

I did 50 chins/pullups 3 times a week, at first it was like 6 sets of 5 and 5x4,

Every week id progress cutting sets and adding reps. simaular to what kyle's suggesting.

Eventually i added weight on a belt ,

In my opinion its a better way than using a lat pulldown machine , witch unless you have very flexible shoulders its hard to do correctly, ( the amount of people i hear say they cant feel there lats working during a pulldown is ridiculas) .

Another good way to improve chins is to put your barbell in a squat rack alittle less than waist high, grab the bar with your feet stretched out infront of you, keeping your core locked pull your chest towards the bar.

Its a high rep exercise but , incline pull ups have merit for beginners trying to imrove chin up / pull up strength.
 
1,2,3,4,5
1,2,3,4,5,6
1,2,3,4,5,6,7
And so-on.

The ladder is based on effacy.

You do say 5 reps to mmf, the training partner jumps on and does say 6, you jump back on and do 4' he jumps on and does 5 an so-on

Eventually you both just pull one rep, the cycle through the ladder again.

Like chris, I attribute my back strength and health from chin-ups, but my upper back strength and health is through rowing movements, chin-up are for overall back health.
 
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