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the property investment thread

hey hulk -
1. Did u get a trust started or a company?
2. Whats the outlay to build a duplex nowadays?

Ive been looking into buying up there been a lazy ass and haven't flown up for a weekend to check it out.

The markets been flat for last 2-3 years from what ive seen. Ill have another closer look.

I flew down to look at some properties at suburb of footscray recently seems the docklands (nearby suburb) is going through a rebuild and its going to be a "trendy suburb" the government has approved for a rezone.

Footscray will eventually go up in price due to the yuppies moving into the docklands and building $million houses
(thanks NPR on that advice BTW about the rezoning)

Im expecting a 15% per year increase in the property for awhile once its all done and dusted.
 
On a more serious note. Can anyone suggest a site that will help me gather the most information I need? I.e. like this forum. To learn everything about everything?


Been mentioned before by someone, but here it is again:
Somersoft Property Investment Forums

Personally, been reading that forum daily for nearly 9 years.
Have learnt everything I know from there (financial/business/personal).
 
Daaam. I really need to do as much research as possible into this don't I. Hulk, Ceffo you guys are amazing. And ceffo I really appreciate your awesome 'informative' post. Probably the best I've seen from you so far....please don't keep it up. Tits or gtfo.

On a more serious note. Can anyone suggest a site that will help me gather the most information I need? I.e. like this forum. To learn everything about everything?


ROFL gareer yeah informative posts hurt my brain. Ill stick to posting about tits and ass more.


In Hindsight - I wish i had some guidance when i was younger i would have been much better off than i am now :(

A site i got to alot is

- Property Investment - Real Estate Investing | PropertyInvesting.com
- Home

Theres a forum on there ask away or search glossaries on terms.
 
Gareer

Further to Ceffo's point about cashflow...

You need to be conscious about rental yield. This just a fancy term for rental income relative to the amount invested.

Keeping it simple....

$200k property
$200pw rent ($10,400 per annum)
Rental yield = (10,400/200,000) * 100 = 5.2%

This is what you receive. what you pay is interest on the loan. The closer you can get the yield to the interest rate of the loan, the less you pay...obviously. With rates around 6.7% or whatever now, if you can your yield get close to that you'll do well. Even with the yield a bit under the loan rate, you can still be cash flow neutral, or positive, because you'll get refunds from tax/depreciation deductions.

However, it's not easy to get these kind of higher yields. A quick check of real estate websites, for prices, and then rents, in same suburbs, will show you that yields are more commonly around 2-4% range. It takes a fair bit of research to find higher yielding areas. Often they're in regional areas, or places well away from desirable suburbs. The value hasn't increased much over the years, because of lack of demand, but rent has risen steadily, equating to a good investment, cashflow-wise...but a risk in terms of capital gains (i..e increase in the value of the property)

The trick is to find one that has reasonable prospects of capital gains (like Ceffos example 5kms from beach) and good cashflow from yield.
 
hey hulk -
1. Did u get a trust started or a company?
2. Whats the outlay to build a duplex nowadays?

Ive been looking into buying up there been a lazy ass and haven't flown up for a weekend to check it out.

Sydney duplex in personal names.
Bris prop 1 in one trust.
Bris prop 2 in a different trust (to reduce land tax)

Got duplex at a good price I think, although builders are hopeless and slow (project building co.)
2 x 2 storey brick veneer/tile 4 bed, 2 bath single garage cost 350k.
This does not include landscaping, fencing, driveways, flooring, lights, etc.
Total cost complete including demo of old house, gas mains extension, extra water supply and water meter (because 2 strata units), etc will be just over 450k.
Does not include holding costs.

Bought for 517.5k + costs about 3 years ago, but Sydney's been flat, apart from a good 20% jump in the past 12 months or so.
Should value at about 650k each on completion, almost done.
Depreciation will be good being brand new and full tax deductions can be claimed during the building process.
 
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hey hulk -
1. Did u get a trust started or a company?
2. Whats the outlay to build a duplex nowadays?

Ive been looking into buying up there been a lazy ass and haven't flown up for a weekend to check it out.

The markets been flat for last 2-3 years from what ive seen. Ill have another closer look.

I flew down to look at some properties at suburb of footscray recently seems the docklands (nearby suburb) is going through a rebuild and its going to be a "trendy suburb" the government has approved for a rezone.

Footscray will eventually go up in price due to the yuppies moving into the docklands and building $million houses
(thanks NPR on that advice BTW about the rezoning)

Im expecting a 15% per year increase in the property for awhile once its all done and dusted.


aaargh footscray, i wouldnt live there if you paid me but i would buy there as an investment for sure. head down there on any given day and its still full of street scum after they apparently cleaned it up, it is undergoing a big transformation though and will definitely be a future hub of melbourne. my partner and i were looking to buy there for its relatively low cost (compared to Seddon & Yarraville) and central location but decided that further out in point cook would be better to raise a family in. awesome Vietnamese food there by the way :) and mangos at the market are unbeatable at $1.99 kg in season lol
 
Ceffo, are you Vietnamese?
If so, I can put you onto my Vietnamese Brisbane project manager.
Whether you are or not, doesn't matter, I'm not Vietnamese and he's basically Australian, but I know some people like to work together.

He sourced my 2 Bris sites, did feasibilities and will project manage them from conception to completion, 5 and 6 townhouses.
He's only starting out, but know's his stuff, and has time to do the research and groundwork.
Has built a great team of Architects, Town Planners, Engineers, Surveryors, Builders and Agents.
If you can get the funding, maybe a small development in Bris could be good for you.
Or buy now and develop a little later.
 
hulk - im vietnamese but i dont really care what color/nationality they are as long as they bring in the $$ and do a good job for me. :)
Ill pst u when im bit more financially stable. Just bought the 4th property so waiting for settlements to go through


hyjak - exactly why i was looking into it. Buy it now for cheap say 300k and HOLD for 3 years till the new development at the docks is complete. Things hopefully will clean up and that property will hit 400k + its a low risk gamble but isn't that what investing is? :)
 
aaargh footscray, i wouldnt live there if you paid me but i would buy there as an investment for sure. head down there on any given day and its still full of street scum after they apparently cleaned it up, it is undergoing a big transformation though and will definitely be a future hub of melbourne. my partner and i were looking to buy there for its relatively low cost (compared to Seddon & Yarraville) and central location but decided that further out in point cook would be better to raise a family in. awesome Vietnamese food there by the way :) and mangos at the market are unbeatable at $1.99 kg in season lol

Pho time baby.

Footscray is still 20 times better than it was 20 years ago, though just watch out for the drivers...
 
Any advice for this sitaution:

I'm trying to get my mum to make some investments. All she does is save into a normal savings bank accounts (that's one step better than me mind you - im at uni making about 15k a year lol).

She is 53, a secure job as school teacher, makes about 70k pa. Has a ~600k house paid in full.
What property investment might she be able to do...?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated...
 
Ceffo, are you Vietnamese?
If so, I can put you onto my Vietnamese Brisbane project manager.
Whether you are or not, doesn't matter, I'm not Vietnamese and he's basically Australian, but I know some people like to work together.

He sourced my 2 Bris sites, did feasibilities and will project manage them from conception to completion, 5 and 6 townhouses.
He's only starting out, but know's his stuff, and has time to do the research and groundwork.
Has built a great team of Architects, Town Planners, Engineers, Surveryors, Builders and Agents.
If you can get the funding, maybe a small development in Bris could be good for you.
Or buy now and develop a little later.
Mate,

I might hit you up for that name if its OK. I'm developing my multi-unit site in Mona Vale right now. In fact my builder just rang to confirm they're excavating the basement right now and the revised plans are ready to go in for the section 96 approval. It will be done in 12 months time and I'll be looking to do something else in Brisbane. I'll probably buy a PPOR in Toowong first for a million or a touch over but will then be into developing again.

For those interested, I post as MichaelW on Somersoft and used to be quite prodigious in my posts. I don't post as much lately as I spend all my time over here! ;)

My Mona Vale build has been a drawn out affair as the GFC in the middle cost me some big cash on shares and made my loan case for the development difficult. I got it through this year and have now commenced the build but its an expensive commercial loan. The banks don't like lending to develop at present. Stick to simple buy and hold existing residential stock for now would be my advice. Its no wonder we're not building enough is all I'll say.

Still, my project is looking good. Quick financials for those into numbers. Site cost $750K. Getting it to DA and commencing $150K. Interest servicing and contingency $100K. Build Contract $1.3M. So, that's $2.3M for the total costs. But its conservatively valued by the banks in today's market at $2.7M. Only $400K profit on paper, but in reality they'll value closer to $3.0M at completion for a $700K odd profit. I'll hold all three and rent them out. Will be cash flow neutral to marginally positive at completion on that lend.

I also own another house in Narrabeen Sydney worth $850K renting for $800pw which is virtually paid off. I think at completion my portfolio will be $30K odd pa cash flow positive.

I'm going to get the bank to release my Narrabeen title once I've developed Mona Vale and created that extra equity. It will take the Mona Vale loan to valuation ration (LVR) to about 80% which should be OK with the bank. I can then sell Narrabeen and free that $850K odd in cash. Its my former PPOR when in Sydney so is CGT free. I'll then take that $850K North as deposit on my new PPOR in Toowong. Whatever I don't spend goes into the Mona Vale IP offset account.

I'll then take out a Line of Credit (LOC) against my new PPOR in Toowong and look for a Brisbane development site or a simple CF neutral IP or 5.

All good, just struggling with the cash flow this year while I develop a $2.3M cost site with no rental income until complete. That's a lot of interest with no rental income to assist until right at the end... ;)

Cheers,
Mike (MichaelW)

*edit* For those wanting to track it, here's my development blog on Somersoft *endedit*
 
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im understanding most of what is said, however my only question is very basic, but will pull the story together... what does PPOR stand for?
 
im understanding most of what is said, however my only question is very basic, but will pull the story together... what does PPOR stand for?
Oops...

Principal Place Of Residence.

i.e. My non-deductible home, not to be confused with my Investment Properties (IPs) which are deductible.

Sorry,
Mike
 
ok, so for newbies like me, the PPOR is where you spent the bulk of your time, and your IP are what are rented out or holiday homes?

Are many people getting into the commercial IP's? i see alot of people getting houses, but few with commercial properties, any reason behind this?
 
ok, so for newbies like me, the PPOR is where you spent the bulk of your time, and your IP are what are rented out or holiday homes?

Are many people getting into the commercial IP's? i see alot of people getting houses, but few with commercial properties, any reason behind this?


PPOR is your own home.
IP's are investment properties, usually common residential properties, houses, townhouses, units, apartments, but not so common holiday homes.

Commercial investing is more risky.
Banks won't lend as much.
GST is involved.
Leases are very important to the value of commercial property.
Commercial property can be vacant for long periods, which mens no cashflow to pay the mortgage.
You generally need more money behind you to get into industrial/commercial.
 
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