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John555

Banned
Hi,
I know for low bar squats you should initiate the movement with the hips, as if sitting on the toilet. But what about high bar squats? Do I still initiate the movement with the hips?

Thanks
 
Hi,
I know for low bar squats you should initiate the movement with the hips, as if sitting on the toilet. But what about high bar squats? Do I still initiate the movement with the hips?

Thanks

My 2c.

That's one only school of thought re low bar squats. Keep on mind a lot of powerlifting articles are catered towards ultra-wide slow squatting style.

Hips first probably works best for squatters with this style of squat, and lifters who are able to keep their shins vertical. But low bar squats =/= wide stance slow squats.

For the narrower, fast descent style low bar squat, bending at the knee helps maintain balance.

My coach teaches to initiate low bar squats at the knee, then once the knee is in the right position relative to the toes, accelerate drop the hips back and down into the hole and punch fast reversal on the way up. The thinking is that if you bend furst at the knees, the hips have no choice but to follow anyway. The point is to get the knee in the right position high up in the squat, then don't let the knees move during the bottom part of the squat and let the hips do the work.

If all you do is break at the hips with a narrower stance, the weight of the bar has to go forward, ie good morning. The knees have to bend if the bar is to stay weighted over the middle of the foot. This isn't so much of a problem using a ultra wide squat stance, because shins close to vertical is more balanced, so hips first makes more sense as a cue.

The other problem with bending at the hips first with a medium-narrow stance is that the balanced knee position doesn't get established at the top of the squat, and the knees end up sliding forward at the bottom. If you do this, then you lose hamstring tightness and rebound.

Rippetoe also teaches knees first, then sit back and down. He also advocates the medium-narrow stance.

Different cues work for different people and different squat styles.

But I think generally the more knees forward your squat is, the more useful initiating with the kness will be.

High bar squats generally necessitate a more knees forward position to maintain balance, so I think you should try initiating with the knees and see how that feels.
 
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Just place yourself in the strongest position, don't complicate things.

Remember your body is slung between the legs.

Between A and B which has the stronger lower back?
What is the difference between A and B?
 
When I squat I don't think about anything, it just comes naturally. Our body has more sensors in it than the best designed machine out there. It will send a message to your brain so you tighten your midsection up and lift your chest at the same time as the weights gradually become heavier and heavier. At least it has worked for me for the past 30 years and like Andy said, it's best not to complicate it; babies and children never have...


Fadi.
 
I understand what you mean Fadi, I had pretty good form the day I first walked into a powerlifting club, after only squatting at home by myself.

Yet I don't think everybody is as lucky, I mean alot of people "naturally" squat with some pretty horrid form, and have to work very hard to try and correct it, many never really able to do so.

I squat low bar, narrow stance, and I definitely do not break at the hips first, I've never really thought about consciously breaking knee/hip first though, I'd think I do it at roughly the same time?
 
I understand what you mean Fadi, I had pretty good form the day I first walked into a powerlifting club, after only squatting at home by myself.

Yet I don't think everybody is as lucky, I mean alot of people "naturally" squat with some pretty horrid form, and have to work very hard to try and correct it, many never really able to do so.

Thank you for bringing the above to my attention Sir. I must have been hanging around naturals most of my time then. Again, sincere thanks.


Fadi.
 
We are all naturals until we go and do unnatural things and screw up our mechanics. Lots of sitting and little exercise leads to tight hipped people who squat whacky, like my friend who I have had to teach how to squat.
Posted via Mobile Device
 
I was a natural first time I squatted but I exercised a lot and did some martial arts... years later without lifting, lots of sitting at uni and not much other exercise I came back pretty tight and could not get depth well at all, it took a few months to get adequate squat form back and full depth.
 
I used to do martial arts and have always been pretty flexible, so getting depth was never a problem. Tight hip flexors, inhibited weak glutes and inactivated TA however have all been (and continue to be) obstacles. The squat just about exposes any weakness, which is why I think it's such a great exercise.
 
Tight hip flexors, inhibited weak glutes and inactivated TA however have all been (and continue to be) obstacles. The squat just about exposes any weakness, which is why I think it's such a great exercise.

I think thats probably 95% of those new (or returning) to working out. Squats expose my weak abs :D
 
Interesting topic..

Generally the body is lazy.. real lazy.. it will do whatever is easiest even if more often than not it causes you an injury. The amount of people that i have seen over the years that cannot switch on their abs consiously or subconsiously.. the amount of people that are hamstring dominant and couldn't swtich on their glutes even if they were paid.. then the hip and quad tightness as well as dominance.. grrrr....

And they have the worst squatting technique.. EVER... cringe worthy

In regards to breaking at the knee vs. the hips.. it will generally come down to muscle dominance, strengths, weakness, etc.. as to what each individual would do straight off the bat..

Ideally you would want to break at the hip first, primarily loading up the glutes and hip joint rather than through the knees.. back squating, front squating and high bar olympic squating all of them.. there will still be some forward flexion at the knee, that's fine(we don't want you to sit back aka box squatting) but at the end of the day we want more load through the hips rather than the knee..

I hope it helps John555??
 
I'm taught (and as it comes naturally to me) to initiate everything from the hip in martial arts, soccer (in certain movements) and dancing. When I started squatting, I did the same.
 
If you ask someone to "please have a seat", would they think hips or knees first? Let's not complicate it is where I stand.


Fadi.
 
I'm taught (and as it comes naturally to me) to initiate everything from the hip in martial arts, soccer (in certain movements) and dancing. When I started squatting, I did the same.

While this may lend credibility to active individuals preferring one method over another, the examples you gave are working on a very different principle (the kinetic link/chain) to the squat.

Whenever I have taught friends to squat I have given the vitals (keep tight, chest up, knees out, drive through the heels) and simply adjusted their natural stance to one that avoids injury.
 
If you ask someone to "please have a seat", would they think hips or knees first? Let's not complicate it is where I stand.


Fadi.

Fadi, while I prefer not complicating things as much as you do, I've taught a couple of beginners dance classes before and there are a lot of people who can't step from side to side properly. I can't even begin to imagine teaching them how to squat!
 
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