neck and shoulder pain(tricep pushdown) - Ausbb

samson-axehammer · 19-11-2009, 11:36 PM

Everytime I get to 60pounds on the tricep pushdowns i get a pain in between my trap and my neck and i have to stop.
for now I will be taking my reps higher 12-18 with less weight untill sorted.
just wondering what it might be is it a nerve or a neck muscle or shoulder muscle or do i need to stretch my neck and shoulders properly?
any ideas welcome

Kyle Aaron · 20-11-2009, 12:30 AM

You probably need to strengthen your upper back. Do some one-armed bent over dumbell rows, some cable rows, something like that. If you want to know why, read on.

Often when you do one lift with one set of muscles doing the pushing or pulling, another set of muscles come in to stabilise everything for you. They hold things in place so your muscles can work best. Let's look at the triceps brachii, the muscle you're working with the pushdown.

Your triceps brachii have three heads - thus their name. The "long head" has its origin (anchor) on your scapula (shoulderblade), the "medial" and "short" heads on the top of your humerus (upper arm bone). They insert on your ulna (the lower arm bone that runs to the little finger side of your hand). Their action is thus to pull on the ulna, extending the elbow.

However, when they pull on the ulna, they also pull on the other end. This happens with every muscle - that's why if you do a leg curl, your bum rises in the air; the hamstrings pull on the lower leg, but pull on the hips, too.

Where the triceps brachii pull on the humerus there's usually no problem. But where they pull on the scapula, left to itself the scapula would jump forwards - so then there'd be no tension left in the triceps long head, and you couldn't extend your elbow - the weight wouldn't move.

So some other muscles have to hold the scapula back. That's why when you do a triceps pushdown your upper back muscles contract. They're holding the scapula back. There are a whole swag of muscles (too many to picture here) which retract your scapula (hold it back), many of them among the often-injured "rotator cuff" muscles.

If you do a lift which the agonist (working) muscle can handle, but the stabiliser (supporting) muscles cannot, the stabliser muscles may be strained, and hurt.

It may be that while your triceps brachii are strong enough to push down 60lbs, your rhomboids, supraspinatus, etc are not strong enough to hold the scapula back against 60lbs of force. This is very common, why is why the rotator cuffs are so often injured.

The solution is to work the stabiliser muscles to strengthen them. For example, it's a healthy (for posture) goal to be able to row as much as you can bench. If you can bench (say) 20kg dumbells, you should be able to row them, too, for the same number of reps.

It is very common for people's - especially men's - backs to be weaker than their chests. This is because of our modern lifestyle, lots of time at the desk and not much picking up heavy sht off the ground.

Work your back harder.

Silverback · 20-11-2009, 01:46 PM

When you do these are you shoulders stable?
Nerves of the arm run from your spine and under your scapula.

Rather complex the shoulder I strongly suggest you see a physio they can usually pin-point problems if you describe the issue.
More often than not most pain is referred pain and not necessarly to do where the pian originates from.
But don't make the mistake to self diagnose.

samson-axehammer · 20-11-2009, 08:48 PM

cheers for the replys,i think it is probaby is a weaker supporting muscle as it takes a a fair effort to push down and i need to stay stiff as i nearly lift off the ground to do it so i put my bodyweight ontop of it,i think it might be 60kgs not pounds.I might trian a little lighter with better form from now on.

Kyle Aaron · 20-11-2009, 08:50 PM

Work your back, too, mate.

And if still in pain, see your physio.

19-11-2009, 11:36 PM	#1 (permalink)
samson-axehammer Newbie Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: brissy Gender: Posts: 10	neck and shoulder pain(tricep pushdown) Everytime I get to 60pounds on the tricep pushdowns i get a pain in between my trap and my neck and i have to stop. for now I will be taking my reps higher 12-18 with less weight untill sorted. just wondering what it might be is it a nerve or a neck muscle or shoulder muscle or do i need to stretch my neck and shoulders properly? any ideas welcome

20-11-2009, 12:30 AM	#2 (permalink)
Kyle Aaron Active Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Melbourne Gender: Posts: 2,522	You probably need to strengthen your upper back. Do some one-armed bent over dumbell rows, some cable rows, something like that. If you want to know why, read on. Often when you do one lift with one set of muscles doing the pushing or pulling, another set of muscles come in to stabilise everything for you. They hold things in place so your muscles can work best. Let's look at the triceps brachii, the muscle you're working with the pushdown. Your triceps brachii have three heads - thus their name. The "long head" has its origin (anchor) on your scapula (shoulderblade), the "medial" and "short" heads on the top of your humerus (upper arm bone). They insert on your ulna (the lower arm bone that runs to the little finger side of your hand). Their action is thus to pull on the ulna, extending the elbow. However, when they pull on the ulna, they also pull on the other end. This happens with every muscle - that's why if you do a leg curl, your bum rises in the air; the hamstrings pull on the lower leg, but pull on the hips, too. Where the triceps brachii pull on the humerus there's usually no problem. But where they pull on the scapula, left to itself the scapula would jump forwards - so then there'd be no tension left in the triceps long head, and you couldn't extend your elbow - the weight wouldn't move. So some other muscles have to hold the scapula back. That's why when you do a triceps pushdown your upper back muscles contract. They're holding the scapula back. There are a whole swag of muscles (too many to picture here) which retract your scapula (hold it back), many of them among the often-injured "rotator cuff" muscles. If you do a lift which the agonist (working) muscle can handle, but the stabiliser (supporting) muscles cannot, the stabliser muscles may be strained, and hurt. It may be that while your triceps brachii are strong enough to push down 60lbs, your rhomboids, supraspinatus, etc are not strong enough to hold the scapula back against 60lbs of force. This is very common, why is why the rotator cuffs are so often injured. The solution is to work the stabiliser muscles to strengthen them. For example, it's a healthy (for posture) goal to be able to row as much as you can bench. If you can bench (say) 20kg dumbells, you should be able to row them, too, for the same number of reps. It is very common for people's - especially men's - backs to be weaker than their chests. This is because of our modern lifestyle, lots of time at the desk and not much picking up heavy sht off the ground. Work your back harder. __________________ Apt Physical Training, CBD and southeastern suburbs, Melbourne, Australia lift like an ox, eat like a horse, sleep like a log PRs:- 5km 17'30"; 5RM SQ100 BP82.5 RW85 OHP55 DL127.5 aptphysicaltraining@gmail.com Last edited by Kyle Aaron; 20-11-2009 at 12:32 AM.

20-11-2009, 08:50 PM	#5 (permalink)
Kyle Aaron Active Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Melbourne Gender: Posts: 2,522	Work your back, too, mate. And if still in pain, see your physio. __________________ Apt Physical Training, CBD and southeastern suburbs, Melbourne, Australia lift like an ox, eat like a horse, sleep like a log PRs:- 5km 17'30"; 5RM SQ100 BP82.5 RW85 OHP55 DL127.5 aptphysicaltraining@gmail.com

20-11-2009, 01:46 PM	#3 (permalink)
Silverback Super Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Between the sublime and the ridiculous Gender: Posts: 415	When you do these are you shoulders stable? Nerves of the arm run from your spine and under your scapula. Rather complex the shoulder I strongly suggest you see a physio they can usually pin-point problems if you describe the issue. More often than not most pain is referred pain and not necessarly to do where the pian originates from. But don't make the mistake to self diagnose.

20-11-2009, 08:48 PM	#4 (permalink)
samson-axehammer Newbie Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: brissy Gender: Posts: 10	cheers for the replys,i think it is probaby is a weaker supporting muscle as it takes a a fair effort to push down and i need to stay stiff as i nearly lift off the ground to do it so i put my bodyweight ontop of it,i think it might be 60kgs not pounds.I might trian a little lighter with better form from now on.