Sticky
Active member
Based on actual participation of lifters in comps, not quoted memberships on paper.
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Based on actual participation of lifters in comps, not quoted memberships on paper.
spartacus
Well-known member
ok, but I counted 460 individuals that competed at least once in pa comps during 2012, total membership, including officials, will be more.
wilks wont tell me official numbers. it must be top secret.
riddles, yes I am a dreamer, but you never know, if you don't have a go.
adam, do the maths, it is not as expensive as you think. no, I wont be paying for anyone, except my own tax or member fee proportion, as I do at present. I am poor.
wilks wont tell me official numbers. it must be top secret.
riddles, yes I am a dreamer, but you never know, if you don't have a go.
adam, do the maths, it is not as expensive as you think. no, I wont be paying for anyone, except my own tax or member fee proportion, as I do at present. I am poor.
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Sticky
Active member
Does that include the school comps they put on to boost memberships for more gov. funding?
If so, I dont count those kids.
Either way, I couldn't care less about PA or CAPO. GPC comps are the biggest and most fun in the country, and the members are supporting that.
Ill keep doing what I'm doing, and if the lifters like it, they will too
Drug tested gyms. Lol. Why? What a waste of cash. If so I hope the drug testers themselves are subject to rec drug and alcohol breath tests when they rock up to work.
Drug testing in all PL Feds. Again why? It's such a small amount of actual drug use. If some bloke wants to inject himself to potentially try and beat the half dozen other blokes in his weight class, let him.
Drug testing in all PL Feds. Again why? It's such a small amount of actual drug use. If some bloke wants to inject himself to potentially try and beat the half dozen other blokes in his weight class, let him.
strong enough?
Member
PA doesn't get direct funding based on membership numbers so this is a furphy. This myth has been perpetuated for a while. It appears to have come from the Senate Enquiry when it was admitted that this did go on...in the 1980s. Just like it did for every sport back then.
PA doesn't actually get any funding from the government at all.
PA is in exactly the same position as GPC and CAPO. It gets its money from corporate sponsors and from membership and competition entry fees.
ASADA provides the testing for free, so PA doesn't have to pay for it. This is what is meant by "funding". PA gets the same deal as other sports which are not important to the sports commission. The only sports which do pay for their own testing are the giant commercial bodies like AFL, NRL etc.
Many sports get additional funding in the form of grants for junior development, AIS scholarships, money to send athletes to international competition etc. Powerlifting is not one of the sports, but PA is lobbying hard to get such funding.
460 is about right for competing member numbers, and wouldn't include the schools program. The schools bench press competition numbers aren't put up in the results section on the website - they aren't PA members.
Sticky
Active member
Thanks for clearing that up.
out of 460 members, only 120 go to the raw nationals, and they have to bin the equipped nationals though.... Thats what Im talking about.
We had 230 financial members, 186 went to nationals.
I think we have just broke 300, and Im budgeting for 210 lifters at next years nationals. Thats what I mean by participation.
My GPC states had 72 entries this year, Im banking on close to 100..... at at state level meet..... Thats almost as big as CAPO and PA nationals.
out of 460 members, only 120 go to the raw nationals, and they have to bin the equipped nationals though.... Thats what Im talking about.
We had 230 financial members, 186 went to nationals.
I think we have just broke 300, and Im budgeting for 210 lifters at next years nationals. Thats what I mean by participation.
My GPC states had 72 entries this year, Im banking on close to 100..... at at state level meet..... Thats almost as big as CAPO and PA nationals.
spartacus
Well-known member
yes, no doubt your fed is going well.
btw sticky, there is absolutely nothing personal towards any fed in my submitted piece, besides a few quotes from wilks and markos and from adfpl. I actually support plurality of feds, albeit better policies would help feds merge.
article sticks to issues; what govt wanted in 1990, and why that policy has failed.
hence, it focuses on pa, and the factors to why feds remain splintered, including other factors beyond drugs.
I only mention Danish policy testing all gyms to show that other countries more proactive.
this thread obviously tried to test waters about Danish approach.
btw sticky, there is absolutely nothing personal towards any fed in my submitted piece, besides a few quotes from wilks and markos and from adfpl. I actually support plurality of feds, albeit better policies would help feds merge.
article sticks to issues; what govt wanted in 1990, and why that policy has failed.
hence, it focuses on pa, and the factors to why feds remain splintered, including other factors beyond drugs.
I only mention Danish policy testing all gyms to show that other countries more proactive.
this thread obviously tried to test waters about Danish approach.
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What actually drives such a pubic policy?
I would have thought that if it was health you could save billions simply by banning cigarettes and alcohol which have well documented health consequences and doesn't require the invasion of people private lives.
So why the focus on something that is insignificant in the community?
How do you deal with the fact that many drugs perscribed by doctors are PED and are listed as banned substances? Am I to receive a 3 year ban from the gym for taking cough medicine?
I would have thought that if it was health you could save billions simply by banning cigarettes and alcohol which have well documented health consequences and doesn't require the invasion of people private lives.
So why the focus on something that is insignificant in the community?
How do you deal with the fact that many drugs perscribed by doctors are PED and are listed as banned substances? Am I to receive a 3 year ban from the gym for taking cough medicine?
spartacus
Well-known member
legion,
it all comes down to what you believe in.
what one person finds trivial or unimportant, maybe others don't.
for me, the four corners special, involving a pa official, provided me with an opportunity to set record straight, my summary of events, on an issue which has been topical lately; drugs in sport.
this thread also reflected my interest.
as for banning cough medicine, I don't think there is much of an interest, albeit some of ingredients may indeed be on banned list.
it all comes down to what you believe in.
what one person finds trivial or unimportant, maybe others don't.
for me, the four corners special, involving a pa official, provided me with an opportunity to set record straight, my summary of events, on an issue which has been topical lately; drugs in sport.
this thread also reflected my interest.
as for banning cough medicine, I don't think there is much of an interest, albeit some of ingredients may indeed be on banned list.
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spartacus
Well-known member
strong enough, so you reckon the asc lies when it tells me its reasons why pa does not get funds.
sort of funny, when I actually have an email directly from the asc after I asked it such a question for my research.
and no matter what you say, drug tests are a form of funding; it is an advantage that no other aust
powerlifing fed gets (fact). adfpf pays asada directly for its tests.
the ipf affliates of Canada, usa, and gb also pay for its tests, and gb is directly seeking such assistance - because it is funding and it needs to double its membership to get it.
these are not lies, but facts (obtained by research).
personally I think pa should not get these funds only, especially give the joke that is ipf testing.
sort of funny, when I actually have an email directly from the asc after I asked it such a question for my research.
and no matter what you say, drug tests are a form of funding; it is an advantage that no other aust
powerlifing fed gets (fact). adfpf pays asada directly for its tests.
the ipf affliates of Canada, usa, and gb also pay for its tests, and gb is directly seeking such assistance - because it is funding and it needs to double its membership to get it.
these are not lies, but facts (obtained by research).
personally I think pa should not get these funds only, especially give the joke that is ipf testing.
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The hips.
Again spartacus you keep posting (even despite saying you were going to stop) but again and again you refuse to write about anything regarding a practical solution to what you see as the problem.
A practical solution.
I think the cost is between $300-$500 a test. That's not cheap. If anyone has any other costs please share.
That 4 corners piece was far from impartial. It was just fear mongering at other peoples expense. It was BS.
Numbers on Book don't count as much as numbers on the platforms. From my understanding (happy to be corrected) GPC is the biggest (competing members) fed?
That 4 corners piece was far from impartial. It was just fear mongering at other peoples expense. It was BS.
Numbers on Book don't count as much as numbers on the platforms. From my understanding (happy to be corrected) GPC is the biggest (competing members) fed?
strong enough?
Member
Where did I suggest otherwise. Participation rates are one factor. Weightlifting gets ASC despite having lower participation rates than powerlifting. Olympic recognition is clearly another factor. If and when the IPF gains IOC recognition, we may see a change in ASC funding status.
Please provide numbers of athletes subject to a registered testing pool, wherabouts reporting, the number out of competition tests and whether the tests included urine and blood, or urine alone. I think you'll find the vast majority are urine tests in competition.
I know of one person who has had 10 out of comp tests - 8 urine and 2 blood this year alone. Name one US, British or Canadian powerlifter who has had as many?
We've been over this ground before.
IPF testing is manifestly inadequate, mainly because of the deficiencies in funding for many of the national governing bodies. PA is an exception because it receives rather close attention to ASADA and PA athletes are subject to much more rigorous testing than most other sports in Australia, including professional and elite olympic athletes.
Your whole thesis is predicated upon the assumption that GPC (international), GPA, WPC etc actually want testing. They don't. Some of these bodies were specifically created because of the introduction of testing. I don't count WPC's drug tested division as their drug policy is just window dressing. It has something like 20 substances on its banned list and is in-competition testing only. I'm talking about the international feds here, not the Australian bodies or the people running them.
GPC Australia and CAPO may or may not want to introduce proper testing. From what I can tell, there would be a range of views within those bodies. If they did want it, I can see why introducing it is financially unfeasible. Fair enough, I have no objection to that. They are both doing very well for themselves without it.
However, given that they are affiliated with international bodies who have no stated policy on doping, this is tantamount to being pro-doping in the eyes of the authorities. In those circumstances, why should public funds be committed to testing in those federations. It wasn't long ago (2005-2006) that the AFL was going to lose ASC accreditation because it didn't want to sign up to WADA. This was the international governing body of Australian football, which did have a drugs policy. How do you think the government feels about WPC?
As for ADFPA, while they have adopted a WADA compliant policy locally, their world counterpart hasn't. Plus the Australian arm is a complete minnow (no offence) with no presence beyond a few country towns. Having ASC is about more than just drug testing. There are various things you have to be able to show. I'm sure if you asked ASC why ADFPA doesn't have ASC recognition they would be able to provide you with more detail.
IPF is affiliated with SportAccord, is IOC recognised for the World Games, is fully committed to WADA and is overwhelmingly the biggest federation, with the most members and the most member nations (by a mile). As policy stands in Australia, this makes it the official governing body of the sport. It only stands to reason that it is the Australian affiliate of the IPF that is officially recognised by the ASC.
The idea of introducing drug testing in gyms is ludicrous and I am against it, even though I have a strong anti-doping position with respect to sporting competition.
spartacus
Well-known member
shrek, no, I am for a govt been smarter in how it deals with the use of peds in australia, that is it really?
each player will do what they can in accordance to context of day. I cant control what people put in tier body.
I am saying govt must lift its game, especially if the goal is to promote clean powerlifting. I actually support pa's dominance (ipf), but express a view that many things need to change, including within pa. these matters are before asc now, and if nothing is done, will go to ombudsman and then minister of sport. if nothing is done then, then I will write an opinion piece for a public forum.
riddles, there is no easy solution. I don't really know what you want me to say.
I am merely going to show govt authorities why the current policy is flawed, that is why I am looking at the case of powerlifting, and why the testing needs to be different with sports with multiple feds. perhaps you have some solutions, beyond what is happening overseas. I hope you do.
at the end of day, it will be up to policy makers. I am just helping to fill in the picture.
I do know, however, last 20 years has been a policy failure, this I agree with wilks.
strong enough, so the danes are stupid? do you have any proof? one thing I cant handle is people so anti-drug, but dismissive of all solutions. while the onus may be on me to prove it works, why don't you tell me why it will not work.
each player will do what they can in accordance to context of day. I cant control what people put in tier body.
I am saying govt must lift its game, especially if the goal is to promote clean powerlifting. I actually support pa's dominance (ipf), but express a view that many things need to change, including within pa. these matters are before asc now, and if nothing is done, will go to ombudsman and then minister of sport. if nothing is done then, then I will write an opinion piece for a public forum.
riddles, there is no easy solution. I don't really know what you want me to say.
I am merely going to show govt authorities why the current policy is flawed, that is why I am looking at the case of powerlifting, and why the testing needs to be different with sports with multiple feds. perhaps you have some solutions, beyond what is happening overseas. I hope you do.
at the end of day, it will be up to policy makers. I am just helping to fill in the picture.
I do know, however, last 20 years has been a policy failure, this I agree with wilks.
strong enough, so the danes are stupid? do you have any proof? one thing I cant handle is people so anti-drug, but dismissive of all solutions. while the onus may be on me to prove it works, why don't you tell me why it will not work.
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Sticky
Active member
This line reads as if membership numbers dont matter....
When in your next post (to which is the single best post in this thread) you say they do.
This could be a reason to inflate paper numbers, as the number of lifters at meets certainly do not reflect the number quoted.